zlacker

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1. Brendi+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-05-18 15:48:24
Advocacy has been making some impact; I joke that it's one area where I've consciously allowed Twitter to radicalize me.

I'd imagine the spike in car prices over the past couple of years contributes as well. A car is an expensive investment that eats a huge part of your income just so you can participate in society, and I'm sure plenty of people feel the pain of this.

The solve for is one or more of these:

1. Make cars cheaper, but various market and regulatory forces seem to be conspiring against that

2. Make cities cheaper so you can move to good transit, but housing isn't in great supply there

3. Make public transit better and broader so more people can use it, but this faces opposition from people in the suburbs and exurbs who have car-centric assumptions baked into their lifestyle

1 is a multilayered problem with a lot of entrenched interests, so it's hard to solve. 2 and 3 are persuasion issues first and foremost, and the persuasion battle can be a lot more localized. So it doesn't surprise me that people are fighting those battles.

EDIT: Napkin math plus some searching said it's about $9,000 a year to own and operate a car on average. $750/month to participate in society. That's 8 annual fares for Pittsburgh's public transit, by way of comparison.

replies(1): >>bombca+fi1
2. bombca+fi1[view] [source] 2023-05-18 21:56:29
>>Brendi+(OP)
$9k a year may be some sort of an average, but there's got to be flex in that, because poor people drive cars and poor people don't make that kind of money.

If you can get a beater for $1k and some insurance, you're basically down to gas (when the beater dies, you get another one or fix it).

replies(1): >>Brendi+QQ1
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3. Brendi+QQ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-19 01:48:19
>>bombca+fi1
~30MPG, ~10K miles a year is about $1200. And even if you can get a car for $1000 (much harder to do post-Covid!), that car is about to rack up a large and unexpected bill. The last year I had our second car, the rust fix to pass inspection was a $2k quote.

And buying cars can be a stressful process, it's not like you can just walk down the street and pick up another $1k beater whenever you want. Car buying often involves arranging rides and childcare for car shopping, and being forced to settle with whatever's out there when you need it.

Yes, you can undercut $9k if you find a cheap car and some luck, or if you know how to work on it yourself, or if you live in an area where salt doesn't destroy your car, if you don't have kids so you can go subcompact, etc. But in my experience, when you buy a cheaper, more high-mileage car, you're not saving a ton vs buying a similarly equipped lower-mileage car. It's more a matter of when you're spending the money.

replies(1): >>bombca+2a2
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4. bombca+2a2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-19 05:08:42
>>Brendi+QQ1
> rust fix to pass inspection

what is this? around here if the rust can accelerate to 88 mph it's fully considered fine and nobody cares

and I agree the spend is probably worth it (or I wouldn't be waiting for Toyota to start making the damn Sienna again) but the reality is millions of poor people drive clunkers and make it work somehow.

replies(2): >>Brendi+aG2 >>Brendi+aQ2
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5. Brendi+aG2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-19 10:41:46
>>bombca+2a2
Heh. The state of Pennsylvania mandates annual inspections and rusty holes in the floor are a no-no.
replies(1): >>bombca+bo3
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6. Brendi+aQ2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-19 11:48:01
>>bombca+2a2
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/average-...

I wasn't able to find anything like "average car payment for low-income Americans", but this link shows that average car payments are pretty evenly spread across the credit score spectrum, with rates inching up as you go down, probably because of higher interest rates. No idea if credit score is a proxy for wealth though.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/15/cars/car-loan-interest-rates-...

A ton of concerning stuff here, most notably that two-thirds of these loans have 5.5-7 year terms now, compared to 30% in 2004. The article it links to shows that for 2023 Q1, the average term is 70 months, down payment is $4k, APR is 11.1% (!!!!), so that the monthly payment is $551 even as down payment increases and amount borrowed decreases.

Again, I don't want to say you're wrong: you can find cheap cars, people survive with clunkers. And the most frustrating part about searching this is that I haven't been able to separate the rich people buying Escalades from the poor people buying entry-level vans, so I don't have a sense of demographic makeup here.

But all of the trendlines are pointing towards car payments being bigger than ever and terms longer than ever. Mash that up with higher interest rates and some lingering supply constraints and it's not a healthy market right now, which is why it doesn't surprise me that people are yearning for a different solution that doesn't involve a heavy reliance on cars.

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7. bombca+bo3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-19 14:56:59
>>Brendi+aG2
Wow and I thought the CA exhaust sniffing on a dyno was a bit extreme. It's amazing how different states are in the USA in things you never think about.
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