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[parent] [thread] 14 comments
1. rs_rs_+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-01-24 13:46:52
>The moment iOS is forced to give browser freedom, chrome has won.

...because Chrome is a much better browser? That's what you're trying to say?

replies(2): >>snowwr+Xd >>pwinns+z31
2. snowwr+Xd[view] [source] 2023-01-24 14:56:36
>>rs_rs_+(OP)
Chrome will become the better browser for Google services, because Google will intentionally degrade them on other browsers.

This is not theoretical, the playbook is obvious and has been run before, by Microsoft.

replies(3): >>izacus+Hk >>saiya-+1B >>girvo+yu2
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3. izacus+Hk[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-24 15:26:55
>>snowwr+Xd
Chrome will only be the better browser if Apple refuses to improve their own. This is how free market competition works - best browser wins.

You're now demanding to be forever locked into an inferior corporate owned product because you're utterly afraid that the better product would win. It's insane.

replies(2): >>snowwr+0n >>the_ot+bq
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4. snowwr+0n[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-24 15:37:38
>>izacus+Hk
This is just really naive. When Google controls the back-end and front-end, they can introduce custom functionality that simply will not run in an alternate browser, no matter how good it is. Microsoft did this extensively in IE.
replies(1): >>izacus+q32
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5. the_ot+bq[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-24 15:48:29
>>izacus+Hk
> You're now demanding to be forever locked into an inferior corporate owned product

Some of us are not. Some of us are saying "now is the wrong time to force Apple to open up its platform to other browsers". Safari on iOS is the one browser holding back Chrome from a monopoly for now. If you really want to see an open web, a more diverse web ecosystem, we have to expand the use of _other_ browsers such that there are again multiple, successful engines at the W3C; so that Google can't lock users out of their tools by forcing them to use Chrome. Only then will it be the right time to go after Apple's browser restrictions.

replies(1): >>jsnell+w41
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6. saiya-+1B[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-24 16:25:39
>>snowwr+Xd
Sorry to sound personal, but your arguments left the realm of facts somewhere up there. I see your account has some duration and karma, which negates the usual argument of paid marketing accounts, the practice so prevalent these days (and past decade).

As for walled monopoly - what if Apple allowed Firefox with its free extension model - what argument would you come up then? One can easily use ublock origin with Firefox, a thing Apple fears quite a bit - its by far the best ad-blocking and to certain extent tracking technology out there currently. We all know here on HN that Apple is moving to marketing more and more (currently 4 billion/year for them and growing fast), so they will never allow this unless forced by law.

Which is one of those situations where users lose and corporation wins (unless you consider ads and tracking a good thing when Apple does it, but that's... illogical to be polite).

replies(2): >>kitsun+UP >>snowwr+Cj1
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7. kitsun+UP[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-24 17:17:46
>>saiya-+1B
> what if Apple allowed Firefox with its free extension model - what argument would you come up then? One can easily use ublock origin with Firefox, a thing Apple fears quite a bit

It can’t be that afraid, because you can use the Firefox version of uBlock Origin in the WebKit-based iOS browser Orion[0] right now.

[0]: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/orion-browser-by-kagi/id148449...

8. pwinns+z31[view] [source] 2023-01-24 18:12:21
>>rs_rs_+(OP)
Because Google can leverage their position in other markets (search, video, advertising) to exert undue power in the browsing market. Their browser doesn't have to be better, they can just degrade site performance for non-Chrome browsers and claim Chrome is better--which they've done many times before.
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9. jsnell+w41[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-24 18:16:27
>>the_ot+bq
We've waited 15 years for Apple to compete fairly. Just when will the right time arrive? When Apple has finished choking the web platform to death?
replies(2): >>dmitri+X03 >>the_ot+rq3
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10. snowwr+Cj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-24 19:10:28
>>saiya-+1B
Apple does not sell ads that load in a web browser, so I'm not sure why they would fear an ad-blocking browser extension.

Extensions, as originally implemented, are a security nightmare. That's why every browser, including Firefox, is changing the way extensions work. Firefox is keeping blocking WebRequest specifically for ad blocking, but acknowledges the security risk. Apple and Chrome are removing it, which breaks uBlock Origin.

Ironically you don't need to look any further than extensions to see the impact of giving the entire web to Chrome. Firefox said they have to implement Manifest v3 because "support for MV3, by virtue of the combined share of Chromium-based browsers, will be a de facto standard for browser extensions in the foreseeable future." Imagine what Firefox would need to do if Chrome was the only other browser, with near-total market share.

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11. izacus+q32[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-24 22:16:50
>>snowwr+0n
No, shilling for a megacorp monopoly to keep back the web because you hate another browser is naive.
replies(1): >>snowwr+hy2
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12. girvo+yu2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-25 01:14:20
>>snowwr+Xd
One can quibble about whether it is on purpose, but Google has done this with their web properties and Firefox, too.
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13. snowwr+hy2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-25 01:40:59
>>izacus+q32
I honestly do not understand the mental gymnastics that allow people to not count Google as (also) a megacorp.

The situation is not “Apple good, Google bad” or vice versa. The benefit of the current situation is that places these two huge companies in direct opposition and competition in the browser space. Using the law to force Apple to lose would take that away and cede the entire Web to Google’s control, thereby actually creating a monopoly.

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14. dmitri+X03[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-25 06:22:04
>>jsnell+w41
> When Apple has finished choking the web platform to death?

What a bullshit statement that has no basis in reality. I wish high-visibility "thought leaders" would stop spewing this bullshit (but they won't)

Safari is definitely not choking the web platform to death. It's as lively as ever.

What you want is a bunch of Chrome-only non-standards that both Safari and Mozilla vehemently oppose to, and a smattering of other bullshit features under the PWA banner that are coming to the next versions of Safari.

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15. the_ot+rq3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-25 10:20:51
>>jsnell+w41
> Just when will the right time arrive?

Android and Windows make up four times the number of web users as iOS. That's almost the same ratio (Chrome:others) as browser use across the web. Get a significant proportion of those user to move onto to other browser platforms first, then go after Apple give the final 20% of users more choice.

(based on stats from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_syste... )

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