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[parent] [thread] 29 comments
1. eggy+(OP)[view] [source] 2022-12-16 02:35:21
Oh, just like when pre-Musk Twitter banned NY Post/journalists over a true story about Hunter Biden's laptop. I don't see how an anti-doxxing rule banning people tracking Elon Musk's whereabouts is worse.
replies(6): >>George+c1 >>richbe+v1 >>jeremy+K1 >>int_19+a2 >>crater+15 >>cma+bd
2. George+c1[view] [source] 2022-12-16 02:41:14
>>eggy+(OP)
Both. Both acts of censorship are bad
replies(2): >>option+X1 >>eggy+vU
3. richbe+v1[view] [source] 2022-12-16 02:42:54
>>eggy+(OP)
> Oh, just like when pre-Musk Twitter banned NY Post/journalists over a true story about Hunter Biden's laptop. I don't see how an anti-doxxing rule banning people tracking Elon Musk's whereabouts is worse.

Calling it "Hunter Biden's laptop" ignores the fact that it was hacked information provided by a foreign adversary to sow division and influence an election. That is not comparable to sharing publicly available information about aircraft movements.

That being said, I also think the extent to which they went to bury and remove the real photos and videos of Hunter Biden smoking crack was a huge overreach. They tried to paint it as a conspiracy theory that had no factual basis — that's biased censorship.

replies(4): >>George+X2 >>philwe+05 >>dillon+CN >>eggy+tV
4. jeremy+K1[view] [source] 2022-12-16 02:44:09
>>eggy+(OP)
He’s banning journalists who criticize him or expose the countless lies he tells.
replies(1): >>ilyt+oK
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5. option+X1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 02:45:48
>>George+c1
exactly. this is something both left and right should fully agree on
6. int_19+a2[view] [source] 2022-12-16 02:46:48
>>eggy+(OP)
Pre-Musk Twitter didn't specifically try to present itself as a bastion of free speech.

On top of that, in case of this particular account, Musk specifically said that it would be allowed on the platform per his understanding of free speech.

replies(1): >>eggy+1V
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7. George+X2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 02:49:52
>>richbe+v1
> it was hacked information provided by a foreign adversary to sow division and influence an election.

Every single one of these claims is false. Hunter Biden gave his laptop to a repair shop, the repair shop shared its contents with the New York Post and the FBI. At no point was any foreign agent involved, at no point was anything "hacked"

replies(2): >>richbe+K4 >>Brybry+Pm
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8. richbe+K4[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 02:58:22
>>George+X2
> Every single one of these claims is false

You're right, Rudy Giuliani is clearly a credible figure and his account of how he happened to come across Hunter Biden's laptop is sensible and not-suspicous in the least.

Hey, quick question completely unrelated to this, was Trump pro or anti Putin? Did Julian Assange leak information in good faith or did he co-ordinate with Republicans to release only information that made Democrats look bad, in the 2016 election? Who provided Assange that information?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-assange-idUSKBN20...

replies(1): >>George+e6
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9. philwe+05[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 02:59:26
>>richbe+v1
> Calling it "Hunter Biden's laptop" ignores the fact that it was hacked information provided by a foreign adversary

It was neither of those things.

10. crater+15[view] [source] 2022-12-16 02:59:36
>>eggy+(OP)
https://abovethelaw.com/2022/12/hello-youve-been-referred-he...
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11. George+e6[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:05:12
>>richbe+K4
I never mentioned Rudy Guiliani? The story you linked is about a completely separate and unrelated story. WikiLeaks and Assange were not involved with Hunter Biden's laptop. As for the provenance of the laptop: Hunter Biden never denied giving the laptop to the repair shop. And the repair shop, voluntarily and on its own initiative, gave the laptop and all its contents to the FBI, who would presumably have found any foreign involvment, if it existed, in their investigation of the matter.
replies(1): >>richbe+a8
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12. richbe+a8[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:16:19
>>George+e6
> The story you linked is about a completely separate and unrelated story. WikiLeaks and Assange were not involved here.

I am aware. My point is that there is a precedent for this behaviour and neither Trump nor Republicans are credible.

> As for the provenance of the laptop: Hunter Biden never denied giving the laptop to the repair shop. And the repair shop gave the laptop and all its contents to the FBI, who would presumably have found any foreign involvment, if it existed, in their investigation of the matter.

Let me be clear: I have no doubt in the veracity of any of the information or materials leaked. I distinctly recall seeing posts on /pol/ containing videos of Hunter smoking crack and banging hookers (that have since been scrubbed from the Internet), and people allegedly attempting to hack his iCloud account.

However, the I do not find the story and chain-of-custody of his laptop credible. I have been looking further since your prior comment and I cannot find anything that unambiguously confirms its provenance.

On the flip side, I also do not find a lack of official condemnation or attribution to Russia to be sufficient in disproving it. Joe Biden and the Democrats were clearly trying to kill the story and scrub any mention of it, so acknowledging it only gives it legitimacy.

Happy to ammend my comment if you can point me to something that proves otherwise, though. Jeffrey Epstein was discovered in part because a woman stumbled across his black book on the sidewalk — sometimes unlikely coincidences happen.

replies(1): >>George+dg
13. cma+bd[view] [source] 2022-12-16 03:43:16
>>eggy+(OP)
I thought the Post journalists on that story didn't want it to run in the first place and weren't banned?

(Edit: may have been just the original author and at least one other:

> The New York Post published images and PDF copies of the alleged emails, but their authenticity and origin have not been determined.[23] According to an investigation by The New York Times, editors at the New York Post "pressed staff members to add their bylines to the story", and at least one refused, in addition to the original author, reportedly because of a lack of confidence in its credibility. Of the two writers eventually credited on the article, the second did not know her name was attached to it until after The Post published it.[24] In its opening sentence, the New York Post story misleadingly asserted "the elder Biden pressured government officials in Ukraine into firing a prosecutor who was investigating" Burisma, despite the fact that Shokin had not pursued an investigation into Burisma's founder. )

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14. George+dg[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 04:02:35
>>richbe+a8
> neither Trump nor Republicans are credible

~~Donald J. Trump was not directly involved in the breaking of the laptop story.~~ (edit: my bad) "Republicans" is a group containing tens of millions of people (though I am not aware of the repair shop owner's party affiliation, if any?)

replies(1): >>richbe+3j
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15. richbe+3j[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 04:20:20
>>George+dg
> Donald J. Trump was not directly involved in the breaking of the laptop story.

Do you really believe that Rudy Guiliani, a man acting as Trump's lackey for numerous things, received bombshell information and publicized it without Trump having any knowledge or involvement?

Michael Cohen testified under oauth that Trump knew about leaked DNC emails in advance of the 2016 election. Fast-forward to ~2019 and Trump had already personally tried to pressure Ukraine into providing damaging information about Joe Biden. There is very little plausible deniability here.

> "Republicans" is a group containing tens of millions of people (though I am not aware of the repair shop owner's party affiliation, if any?)

I am obviously not referring to a collective conspiracy of between hundreds of millions of American citizens. I meant the Republican Party.

replies(1): >>George+3m
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16. George+3m[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 04:40:26
>>richbe+3j
My mistake, I had forgotten about Rudy Giuliani's involvement.

> I meant the Republican Party.

Which contains many thousands of people, many of whom do not get along. It's a minor miracle that it is still holding together at all!

replies(1): >>richbe+pm
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17. richbe+pm[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 04:43:08
>>George+3m
> My mistake, I had forgotten about Rudy Giuliani's involvement.

That's okay, I had to go back and re-check the details of the story multiple times.

Based on your other comments, I think we're probably share a similar view about it. All I'm saying is that, while the validity of the content itself unimpeachable, the story about how it was uncovered is highly suspicious.

> Which contains many thousands of people, many of whom do not get along. It's a minor miracle that it is still holding together at all!

Of course, but they demonstrably put up a rather unified front against the Democrats; Catholics and Protestants hated each other, yet put aside their differences to vote for common interests.

Aren't the GOP currently spearheading an investigation into Hunter Biden's laptop?

https://twitter.com/housegop/status/1593253229747265545

https://i.redd.it/4yfum3kpzy0a1.jpg (I'm too lazy to find the actual tweet)

replies(1): >>George+hn
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18. Brybry+Pm[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 04:44:43
>>George+X2
Under Twitter's definition[1] the repair shop accessing the contents and sharing them would be considered "hacked".

During the NY Post story, on Twitter you weren't allowed to link to "hacked" material (though this was probably not well enforced).[2]

Twitter changed that policy and reverted the account freezes[3] so that it was fine to link to "hacked" material as long as you weren't directly affiliated with the entity that produced the "hacked" material. [4]

[1] https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/hacked-materi...

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20200603215859/https://help.twit...

[3] https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/twitter-ceo-nypost-blo...

[4] https://web.archive.org/web/20210301054617/https://help.twit...

replies(1): >>richbe+vq
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19. George+hn[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 04:47:43
>>richbe+pm
I don't think it's suspicious. If the Russians (or whoever) had stolen the personal labtop of a close Biden family member, it doesn't seem plausible to me that the Bidens would not make that fact public. Joe Biden would not cover up a foreign adversary's crimes when both political and financial incentives run the other way.
replies(1): >>richbe+do
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20. richbe+do[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 04:55:25
>>George+hn
> it doesn't seem plausible to me that the Bidens would not make that fact public

It makes sense to me, considering how damaging and embarrassing the content was. If they confirm it, they lose plausible deniability in being able to claim it's fake.

For a large period of time there was a coordinated effort to purge everything from the Internet and paint anyone bringing it up as a conspiracy theorist. It's harder to get away with that if you call attention to the leak and confirm it's authenticity.

Perhaps the laptop truly belonged to Hunter Biden. Without a confirmation or proper chain of custody, it's hard to say either way. It's not implausible that an advanced threat actor, especially one backed by a nation-state, could create an elaborate laptop forgery to 'layer'[0] hacked material into a legitimate news story and avoid the hack itself taking centre-stage like in 2016 — of course, this is speculation on my part.

[0] https://www.moneylaundering.ca/public/law/3_stages_ML.php#:~...

replies(1): >>ericns+nn2
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21. richbe+vq[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 05:08:28
>>Brybry+Pm
If nothing else, this story (along with countless others) really affirms the value of full-disk encryption.

A stranger should not be able to unplug your hard-drive and access your nudes.

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22. ilyt+oK[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 07:35:51
>>jeremy+K1
Still lighter than manipulating the election previous Twitter management endulged in
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23. dillon+CN[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 08:04:19
>>richbe+v1
There is not proof it was by a foreign government afaik. Though from the reporting I've read it does seem to be murky at a minimum, and not proven to be as clear as top comment-or said. Doesn't matter though.

That specific context you mention is VERY important:

Russia already did this.

The FBI specifically warned to TW that a leak like this had high chance of happening just at the time it did.

Twitter was right to be cautious.

Maybe didn't do everything consistently or perfectly, but I would far prefer them limiting the reach of Hunter dick pics and crack photos than letting a foreign government do so much damage again.

I think their main error was being slow as more background & info was uncovered.

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24. eggy+vU[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 09:10:42
>>George+c1
I agree. I wanted to present the opposite side to make sure short-term memories remembered.
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25. eggy+1V[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 09:15:59
>>int_19+a2
Really? Jack Dorsey 2015 said it and many times after [1].

Twitter only censored the oldest continually published newspaper in America during an election about the Hunter Biden laptop.

  [1]  https://twitter.com/jack/status/651003891153108997
replies(1): >>arrrg+lA1
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26. eggy+tV[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 09:20:20
>>richbe+v1
The computer store owner in the USA is not a foreign adversary. The content is real and criminal. Ties to foreign adversary China and Russia too.

Be honest, and ask yourself if that had been Trump's son's laptop would Twitter, The Washington Post, and the others have done the same? I don't think so.

If I collate publicy available information and publish it continuously on any person, you are OK with that? If it happens to you?

replies(1): >>richbe+ol1
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27. richbe+ol1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 13:11:25
>>eggy+tV
> The computer store owner in the USA is not a foreign adversary.

Sure, if you presuppose that the people responsible for disclosing it are credible and honest.

I personally have some questions why a computer store owner would, faced with an abandoned laptop from a customer, decided to snoop through its contents and give it to Rudy Giuliani, of all people.

If you take the story at face value it's still a massive breach of privacy. You have to go out of your way to find this stuff; an ethical repair shop would go out of their way to avoid accidentally stumping across private information.

Even still, if you assume that he stumbled across extremely concerning information in a manner no fault of his own, why did he feel it necessary to leak videos of Hunter Biden smoking crack and having sex? Imagine how creepy it would be if a woman dropped her laptop off at a repair shop and the owner leaked her nudes?

The most charitable interpretation is that Hunter Biden dropped his laptop off at a computer repair shop, and the owner decided to snoop for compromising information and give it to his father's political rival, presumably for politically-motivated reasons.

> Be honest, and ask yourself if that had been Trump's son's laptop would Twitter, The Washington Post, and the others have done the same? I don't think so.

I agree.

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28. arrrg+lA1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 14:48:07
>>eggy+1V
For a day, for something that was nominally outside their TOS, which lead to strong internal tensions and in the end also was a complete nothingburger that didn’t matter at all.

This, to me, clearly seems to be a small mistake with no material negative impact on the world. Shit happens.

Elon is consistently and repeatedly making far worse mistakes.

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29. ericns+nn2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 18:21:19
>>richbe+do
I don't understand why the chain of custody matters if DKIM and DMARC are legitimate ways to verify the communications contained in the laptop. The focus on crack smoking hookers getting clapped by Biden isn't as interesting when it comes to political malfeasance.
replies(1): >>richbe+MI2
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30. richbe+MI2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 19:57:34
>>ericns+nn2
> I don't understand why the chain of custody matters if DKIM and DMARC are legitimate ways to verify the communications contained in the laptop.

Whether the information is real is orthogonal to how it was obtained. Conspiring with a hostile adversary to release damaging information about a political opponent is also political malfeasance.

The circumstances of how the information was obtained is incredibly suspect and that deserves scrutiny, even if the information is legitimate and actionable.

> The focus on crack smoking hookers getting clapped by Biden isn't as interesting when it comes to political malfeasance.

That's kind of my point: why was that stuff leaked and spread when there was actually damning evidence? To me, it seems like the point was to release as much damaging and embarrassing content as possible to harm Joe Biden.

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