zlacker

[parent] [thread] 105 comments
1. okwubo+(OP)[view] [source] 2022-05-19 07:20:31
The last few weeks (months, really) has highlighted an incredible lack of discernment in the VC-verse wrt the thing we call web3. Now. I have no experience doing what YC does and don’t claim to, but the jig here was so transparent that the smallest drop of “street smart” should’ve been enough to set off some alarms.

We’re approaching a point where being passed over for “culture fit” is a compliment. Hopefully the embarrassment is enough to expand the founder vetting checkboxes.

replies(11): >>oefrha+L >>shafyy+k2 >>photon+33 >>pagane+x3 >>geneze+G3 >>hardwa+g4 >>Amboli+fg >>JofArn+Zr >>ZeroGr+3u >>ryanSr+Rw >>Nelson+My
2. oefrha+L[view] [source] 2022-05-19 07:27:30
>>okwubo+(OP)
If they’re unlucky they lose $500k, which is nothing. If they’re lucky they get a Coinbase. Why not.
replies(2): >>okwubo+P1 >>davidg+52
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3. okwubo+P1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 07:36:49
>>oefrha+L
$42 million of real people’s money was lost. That’s a net negative to society whether or not it shows up on a balance sheet.
replies(4): >>monkey+r2 >>ramraj+B2 >>drewm1+44 >>sgjohn+EA
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4. davidg+52[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 07:39:56
>>oefrha+L
yep. The scam is:

1. VCs provide a ton of money, to incentivise token issuers.

2. The issuers pump out a pile of tokens that would constitute unregistered penny stocks. The VCs buy in.

3. If the SEC doesn't bust the issuers, the VCs make a bundle, and much quicker than they could funding a productive company.

4. If the SEC does bust the issuers, the poor widdle investors are protected from the evil issuers, who have to refund investors - the VCs don't lose.

It's the gig economy of penny stock scams, with the legal risk being borne by the issuers.

5. shafyy+k2[view] [source] 2022-05-19 07:42:55
>>okwubo+(OP)
I remember YC stating that they will "forfeit" (probably not the right legal term) their shares in companies that turn out to do unethical things. Now, let's see if they stick to their principles.
replies(3): >>nrmitc+z2 >>blitza+65 >>gadder+o7
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6. monkey+r2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 07:43:48
>>okwubo+P1
Sure but as long as they (the VC) are shielded from liability, it's not their problem. Society is something other folk can worry about. And if things get really bad, then a quick essay on lessons learnt, we should all move on, etc.
replies(2): >>the_ot+o3 >>MrMan+Kk
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7. nrmitc+z2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 07:45:15
>>shafyy+k2
“Forfeiting” shares in a company that has raised a couple million and funding and lost $42M in user funds seems like a bit of an empty gesture from YC
replies(2): >>shafyy+c3 >>josu+A6
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8. ramraj+B2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 07:45:22
>>okwubo+P1
It wasn’t lost, it went from one crypto idiot to another crypto idiot.
replies(2): >>koolba+gf >>capito+Y83
9. photon+33[view] [source] 2022-05-19 07:49:35
>>okwubo+(OP)
There were funds that did due diligence and built out models of the Luna/Terra/Anchor ecosystem and realized it was unstable.

You can talk to the people who built their models and they have lots of fun things to say about the ordeal.

replies(2): >>hcks+y3 >>rsynno+u6
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10. shafyy+c3[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 07:51:12
>>nrmitc+z2
Of course. But I bet they're still not going to do it...
replies(1): >>jacque+F5
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11. the_ot+o3[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 07:53:29
>>monkey+r2
> Society is something other folk can worry about.

The main problem with capitalism in one handy sentence.

12. pagane+x3[view] [source] 2022-05-19 07:55:13
>>okwubo+(OP)
Probably not much else to invest on right at this moment, at least not at this level ("small" start-ups wanting to "change the world").

I was honestly believing that the web3 bullsh.t were just some young people who didn't know any better or some scam-artists (or both), I didn't actually think for a second that a "serious" VC like YC would put money into something like that. Looks like I was wrong.

replies(2): >>bombca+Py >>grey-a+1a3
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13. hcks+y3[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 07:55:16
>>photon+33
Do you have any links / references regarding that? I'd like to read more
replies(3): >>photon+V5 >>josu+t6 >>mellav+lq
14. geneze+G3[view] [source] 2022-05-19 07:55:53
>>okwubo+(OP)
> the thing we call web3

The thing some call web3.

replies(1): >>hnbad+l4
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15. drewm1+44[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 07:59:50
>>okwubo+P1
The money changed hands... from people gambling on financial instruments to other people who are probably also gambling on financial instruments. Significant real value was only destroyed forever if the underlying tech for this is based on proof of work. Mining bitcoin destroys an enormous amount of ~real value, and nobody who cares about the advancement of society should touch it. Proof of work crypto mining is something we can and should just ban as a society the same way we ban watering lawns with drinking water in the middle of a drought.
replies(2): >>onetho+z6 >>mcinty+bM
16. hardwa+g4[view] [source] 2022-05-19 08:02:12
>>okwubo+(OP)
I think this is something like AI -- where people who are calling it "AI" are often sales people/hucksters (I mean this as little a pejorative sense as possible), and the people calling it "ML" are the practitioners/people you should be listening to.

Once a phrase gains mainstream adoption and starts to rapidly lose meaning, I find that people who care dearly about that thing start calling it something else.

That said -- I really struggle to find the people who are really all in on crypto in a technical sense. Where are the people building cool things and trying to push the boundaries with crypto? Surely it's still happening but just hard to find it in all the debris/trash.

replies(3): >>puranj+U7 >>doomro+ce >>im3w1l+Hu
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17. hnbad+l4[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:02:47
>>geneze+G3
Sadly the term is poisoned now and we won't be able to use it for anything new in the near future.
replies(1): >>aenis+26
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18. blitza+65[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:12:04
>>shafyy+k2
> I remember YC stating that they will "forfeit" their shares in companies that turn out to do unethical things.

Shares in a company are typically "forfeit" when the company you invested in goes bust.

While its a nice virtue signalling headline - giving up something worth 0 (only not worth a large negative number as shares are limited in liability) is not at all noble.

replies(1): >>shafyy+d5
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19. shafyy+d5[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:13:32
>>blitza+65
Sure, but if I remember correctly they said that they would give the shares back for free or something. So even if the unethical company didn't go bust but exited, they wouldn't get any cash.
replies(1): >>ALittl+U6
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20. jacque+F5[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:19:16
>>shafyy+c3
They stayed in Installmonetizer and Scribd afaict.
replies(1): >>RF_Sav+sw
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21. photon+V5[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:22:52
>>hcks+y3
Not that I can share publicly unfortunately.
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22. aenis+26[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:23:31
>>hnbad+l4
Well, we can always use the USB approach to naming. Lets just call the next thing web3 type II superspeed or sth.
replies(1): >>sgeren+Pf
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23. josu+t6[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:27:40
>>hcks+y3
We considered putting some of our treasury in Anchor. I didn't build a model, just one hour of DD was enough to see the risks. Here is the message I shared with my team on Slack with the findings from a very brief DD: https://twitter.com/josusanmartin/status/1524323026942242818
replies(1): >>grey-a+68
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24. rsynno+u6[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:27:53
>>photon+33
That raises an interesting ethical problem, really; should there be a duty to report this sort of thing, or is "scheme X is fundamentally flawed/a scam and investors will lose everything" legitimate proprietary information? As I understand it, various analysts were pretty sure at the time that Madoff's scheme was a Ponzi, but in general they didn't tell anyone (in fairness, one attempted to and had trouble getting listened to).
replies(7): >>photon+N7 >>lifty+u8 >>dropne+W8 >>vkou+H9 >>pjc50+Cd >>lbrine+m41 >>mhh__+Kf1
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25. onetho+z6[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:28:36
>>drewm1+44
It's a great analogy because:

Banning watering gardens is exactly as dumb as banning proof of work. The vast majority of water wastage occurs irrigating farms supporting crops that are unsuitable for that area.

A solar panel connected to a coin miner is only doing good in the world. Where is the negative? You sure it's the mining that is the bad thing and not the dirty energy?

replies(2): >>sylvin+39 >>whatev+Ta
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26. josu+A6[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:28:38
>>nrmitc+z2
Backstopping those losses would be the right thing to do.
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27. ALittl+U6[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:32:18
>>shafyy+d5
Wouldn't that create an incentive for successful companies to be unethical?
replies(2): >>patric+t8 >>blitza+kf1
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28. gadder+o7[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:37:17
>>shafyy+k2
I think for "forfeit" you can substitute "cut them loose".
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29. photon+N7[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:40:53
>>rsynno+u6
A model has assumptions, but the space is new enough to where there's going to be uncertainty in any model due to unknown unknowns. So it seems like defining a standard of mandatory reporting of assumptions would be hard.
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30. puranj+U7[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:43:24
>>hardwa+g4
As someone who went heavy into crypto/web3, it does pain me to admit that there really are no use cases besides making money. Which isn’t a bad use case by itself, but after using practically hundreds of protocols and projects, there’s not a single one I’d use if there was no prospect of making money off of it. My dApp usage has cooled off almost completely. And all data shows that this is true for most others as well
replies(4): >>hardwa+S9 >>vkou+Ka >>jfk13+lg >>moneyw+yM1
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31. grey-a+68[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:45:42
>>josu+t6
About 5 seconds thought would be enough to see the risks, and the same goes for the rest of the crypto ecosystem. Even the name of UST is clearly meant to con people who confuse it with USDT. It's scams upon scams all the way down.

Even if your figures seem out of date, your argument against UST also holds for USDT (which underpins much of the crypto price bubble):

There is 7B USD in circulation and the market cap of US(D)T is 74 BILLION USD

All this perceived wealth is going to melt into air soon, and yes a bear market has already arrived.

replies(1): >>lbrine+O31
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32. patric+t8[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:49:17
>>ALittl+U6
I don't think YC would ever forfeit their shares from a successful company.
replies(1): >>webmav+x84
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33. lifty+u8[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:49:19
>>rsynno+u6
There were many people that reported on the flawed stability mechanism of Terra/Luna/UST. But still, there were many other people that placed their trust in it and cheered the price appreciation.
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34. dropne+W8[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:53:46
>>rsynno+u6
for context for others following along, Galois Capital went public with their criticism months before they started shorting. most people didn't listen.

https://twitter.com/galois_capital

replies(1): >>SilasX+xj
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35. sylvin+39[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:55:01
>>onetho+z6
> Where is the negative?

For one, you are wasting a solar panel that could be offsetting more positive energy usage. And building both the solar panel and the miner is far from emission-free.

replies(1): >>onetho+ra
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36. vkou+H9[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 09:00:55
>>rsynno+u6
The SEC will pay you money if you report fraud, the problem is that it's not clear how illegal these schemes are, and for the ones that are illegal, whether or not the SEC will be able to build, and win a case.

Bitfinex, for example is being prosecuted. The SEC have cases against a few of the mid-level people, but the founder is hiding out somewhere in Asia, and will never see the inside of a US courtroom.

Also, it's very easy to con someone, but it's almost impossible to convince someone who has been conned that they've been cheated. If you do your due diligence, and disclose your findings, the marks will ignore you, the con artists will smear you in the press, start lawsuits against you, and everyone uninvolved will shrug their shoulders and 'both sides' your feud.

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37. hardwa+S9[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 09:03:25
>>puranj+U7
> As someone who went heavy into crypto/web3, it does pain me to admit that there really are no use cases besides making money. Which isn’t a bad use case by itself, but after using practically hundreds of protocols and projects, there’s not a single one I’d use if there was no prospect of making money off of it. My dApp usage has cooled off almost completely. And all data shows that this is true for most others as well

I appreciate the candor -- I still hold out hope, thinking maybe PoS (with equally bought-in parties) could work, but at that point you might as well have regular old paper and pencil coordination/contracts...

The tech is novel, but the applications just don't seem to be falling into place at all... I even consider the ability for it to function as cool points (not NFTs but just a way to make and check exclusive tokens) is OK because it gives community builders a way to pull forward revenue. If I think of it like a self-hosted app for managing exclusive tokens then I can kind of see a use -- if before people didn't have an on-ramp to enforcing their own manufactured exclusivity then maybe it has some positive effects...

Unfortunately right now it looks like the ecosystem is just a backdoor to unregulated securities. Some of the automated exchange stuff (uniswap and co) seemed cool too though I haven't looked too deeply at them.

replies(2): >>puranj+xe >>bombca+ez
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38. onetho+ra[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 09:08:46
>>sylvin+39
Wasting a solar panel? Do you think a beach is a waste of silicon?

Building a solar panel and a gpu (say) is not emission free? Because they require energy to refine and manufacture. So we are still back to the fact the issue is with the energy generation. Right?

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39. vkou+Ka[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 09:11:15
>>puranj+U7
> As someone who went heavy into crypto/web3, it does pain me to admit that there really are no use cases besides making money.

In 2022, is there any money to be made there, other than:

1. Money that comes from 'less lucky' entrants in the various zero sum schemes?

2. Money that comes from selling shovels to the con artists running #1?

As a bystander, I'm not seeing any other ways that 'web3' is making money - and I'd argue that if it's just those two, then that's a pretty bad use case. I mean, it's good for the participants who are making money, but all that money comes from impoverishing others.

replies(1): >>puranj+6e
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40. whatev+Ta[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 09:13:50
>>onetho+z6
The problem is that you need an entire supply chain and manufacturing to provide you with your solar panel and gpu.

We are mobilizing all these resources and manufacturing capacity to do what? Run infinite loops on a useless program?

Meanwhile at my lab that works on bio simulations they could not find gpus to do their research.

replies(1): >>onetho+kc
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41. onetho+kc[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 09:31:39
>>whatev+Ta
I really don’t understand this line of thinking.

Are gamers just running useless programs too?

We mobilise resources for whatever people want to pay for… “why” they want to spend their money on that has never been an issue.

Is Gucci wasting leather that could otherwise be used to make school shoes? Ban Gucci!

replies(1): >>whatev+Zc
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42. whatev+Zc[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 09:38:14
>>onetho+kc
If gamers were swarming overnight* everything on the market like consumer, professional, server grade gpus then yes it would be problematic for the society.

* and also dumping them all together overnight

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43. pjc50+Cd[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 09:45:37
>>rsynno+u6
Unfortunately, you can shout "this is a scam" from the hilltops and people won't listen.
replies(1): >>thaway+Rs
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44. puranj+6e[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 09:51:04
>>vkou+Ka
There really isn't. I'm deep in the crypto hole and have a whole bunch of close friends in private telegram groups scouring for opportunities. And collectively, we've only been down outside of a few lucky plays and/or airdrops (like the BAYC $APE airdrop).

Which is precisely why you see dApp usage numbers crater. Check out OpenSea's daily volume on Dune.xyz as an example - down to $30M/day from consistent $150M/day even a month ago.

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45. doomro+ce[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 09:52:11
>>hardwa+g4
Believe it or not… it’s on bitcoin. It’s fascinating watching a largely un-steared bitcoin attempt to scale.
replies(1): >>hardwa+Hw
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46. puranj+xe[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 09:56:26
>>hardwa+S9
The one thing that still makes me excited for this tech is web wallets and being able to pay/send money with them. If they are widely adopted, and a safe stablecoin (maybe even a CBDC) becomes the defacto transacting currency with quick on/off ramps, it would really change the way we pay for things online.

Like buying a monthly subscription for a tool like, say, Icy.tools, is so much faster when you can pay directly with metamask. No accounts, no logins, no credit card screens.

The catch, of course, is that for the tech to get adopted by the mainstream, you will need way more regulations and safeguards. Maybe KYC on wallets (which means creating accounts/logins), maybe the ability to reverse transactions to reduce fraud.

All of these regulations might introduce enough friction that the final experience doesn't differ much from current legacy systems.

But a built-in browser wallet that makes payments (including micropayments) easier is really needed. It's the only antidote to our current advertising dependent model of the web.

replies(1): >>shigaw+pl
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47. koolba+gf[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 10:06:22
>>ramraj+B2
Arguably the second one is not an idiot. Or at least not as much.
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48. sgeren+Pf[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 10:12:44
>>aenis+26
Web3 2x2 Gen 2.1.
49. Amboli+fg[view] [source] 2022-05-19 10:18:32
>>okwubo+(OP)
The problem with web3 and crypto in general is that most people and energy get attracted by the potential to get rich, and being useful is an afterthought. I would be more attracted if I saw more products that tried to be useful first, and then try to make money for it afterwards. But it's harder to direct so much energy into projects like that.
replies(1): >>davidc+fB
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50. jfk13+lg[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 10:19:03
>>puranj+U7
> no use cases besides making money

And by "making money", we really mean transferring money from gullible and/or desperate fools to unscrupulous insiders.

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51. SilasX+xj[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 10:55:10
>>dropne+W8
Was there a specific tweet you meant to link? That just goes to Galois’s profile page.
replies(1): >>dropne+2n
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52. MrMan+Kk[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 11:08:15
>>monkey+r2
yeh I doing think most of these people believe in something called society
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53. shigaw+pl[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 11:14:56
>>puranj+xe
Dumb question but what's the user experience difference between a browser wallet and saving a credit card in a password manager?
replies(1): >>MacsHe+nz
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54. dropne+2n[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 11:29:33
>>SilasX+xj
its months and months worth of tweets, and that's all they talked about during this year.

first a cryptic puzzle as a recruiting tool for analysts: https://twitter.com/Galois_Capital/status/148693793605468979...

followed by months of warnings like this: https://twitter.com/Galois_Capital/status/151217543903232819...

and threads pushing the systemic risk angle: https://twitter.com/Galois_Capital/status/150461116699529216...

replies(3): >>bombca+iy >>Alexan+GZ >>SilasX+NM1
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55. mellav+lq[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 11:53:50
>>hcks+y3
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-04-19/the-st...

> Here is how an algorithmic stablecoin works. You invent two tokens, call them Dollarcoin and Sharecoin. ... The process is sometimes compared to algorithmic central banking, where the central bank maintains the value of the currency (Dollarcoin) by adjusting its supply.

> On first principles this is insane.

56. JofArn+Zr[view] [source] 2022-05-19 12:05:02
>>okwubo+(OP)
VCs are unfortunately, on the whole, all too discerning when it comes to Web3. It's a meme now in the community that when a VC and tokens are involved, there's a good chance they are getting preferential treatment and using the end users as their exit liquidity. That's not necessarily the case here but "greed" has become a general theme and the motivations behind otherwise-puzzling investments become clear when viewed through that lens.
replies(2): >>cycrut+EG >>rchaud+gg1
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57. thaway+Rs[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:10:31
>>pjc50+Cd
There’s a great recent Bloomberg Podcast episode (Odd Lots?) where the CEO of FTX interactive is describing yield farming, and it dawns on everybody (Matt Levine states it explicitly) that what he is describing is a Ponzi scheme.

And then the CEO guy basically says that their old school finance may consider it a Ponzi but it’s the future of finance and they’re just gonna end up suffering from FOMO.

replies(1): >>webmav+524
58. ZeroGr+3u[view] [source] 2022-05-19 12:19:28
>>okwubo+(OP)
Or, they knew all that but thought they would probably personally benefit anyway?

You can get rich in a gold rush selling shovels. And it doesnt really matter if there's no gold, or not enough for all the miners to make a living. And why would a shovel salesman focus on the negative like that?

replies(1): >>webmav+3b4
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59. im3w1l+Hu[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:23:06
>>hardwa+g4
To mean this sounds like it's trying to shift the blame to an outgroup. I think we have to acknowledge that there are bad people within our (SWE) ranks too.
replies(1): >>hardwa+hw
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60. hardwa+hw[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:31:42
>>im3w1l+Hu
You’re right, I did not mean to exclude SWE from the group of hucksters, I agree that they’re part of it.

The number of developers became a key metric for coins to project legitimacy and there are certainly SWEs who are bad actors and/or knowingly contributing

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61. RF_Sav+sw[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:32:41
>>jacque+F5
Scribd at least was interesting. I wonder if it has any future as a platform for selling documents and articles.
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62. hardwa+Hw[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:33:57
>>doomro+ce
Any examples? This like lightning seen to have under delivered and sharding/rollups/etc seem to be still research grade.

Scaling also doesn’t seem to be in the interest of miners who essentially provide the network security…

replies(1): >>bombca+tz
63. ryanSr+Rw[view] [source] 2022-05-19 12:34:39
>>okwubo+(OP)
VCs mostly fund crypto to make incredible amounts of money by pumping and dumping on retail. Take Solana as an example. 40% of their initial supply was allocated to insiders. Giving those VCs and founders the ability to dump on retail. It’s truly abhorrent behavior [1]

1. https://youtu.be/nBHH0k8EOHE

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64. bombca+iy[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:42:01
>>dropne+2n
That chain in the first tweet should be enough to frighten anyone.
replies(2): >>dropne+5B >>terafl+mI
65. Nelson+My[view] [source] 2022-05-19 12:44:05
>>okwubo+(OP)
The participation of big-name Silicon Valley VC in some obvious financial frauds is really disappointing to me.
replies(2): >>davidc+rB >>nradov+7M
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66. bombca+Py[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:44:21
>>pagane+x3
Huh, my take all along was that web3 terminology was specifically designed to “pretty up” blockchain related things to make it palatable to VCs, by implying that it was going to be the next internet and you need to get on now.
replies(1): >>jamal-+RK
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67. bombca+ez[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:46:26
>>hardwa+S9
Most (if not all) proof of stake systems can be replaced with a centralized database/authority run by the big stakers.
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68. MacsHe+nz[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:47:17
>>shigaw+pl
Crypto wallets double as a kid of single sign-on identity. If you have a crypto wallet in a browser add-on, you already have a paudonymous account usable on tens of thousands of crypto enabled web apps. All you have to do is one-click sign-in.

No sign-up flow, no emails, no commitment. You just tap login and you have an account. One more tap and you've paid.

Plus other benefits like effectively free micro-transactions as small as thousands of a penny at a transaction rate in tens of milliseconds, for some chains (e.g. Solana w/Phantom or SolFlare browser extension).

All this adds up to being able to try, pay, assess, and "logout" of any completely novel (to you) service/site faster than a WSJ article page can load.

The effortless of the user experience doesn't translate well to words. Getting use to this frictionless use of compatable web apps is an experience qualitatively similar to browsing the web with an ad blocker. You can't go back. Going back feels broken, messy, slow, and outright aggravating.

replies(2): >>puranj+qR >>lottin+e51
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69. bombca+tz[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:47:33
>>hardwa+Hw
Bitcoin has scaled by the exchanges - most “Bitcoin” transactions now happen off-chain in an exchange.

What this says about the original purpose of Bitcoin is left to the reader.

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70. sgjohn+EA[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:53:38
>>okwubo+P1
So?
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71. dropne+5B[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:55:39
>>bombca+iy
imagine moving your savings to stablegains. you're definitely not reading galois tweets.

why the founders didn't flinch... who knows? maybe they decided that 3ac being invested is their security.

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72. davidc+fB[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:56:30
>>Amboli+fg
Products that are trying to be useful first do their due diligence and realize that blockchain is wholly unsuitable for anything other than creating speculative assets and just use a normal database instead.
replies(1): >>peyton+3F
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73. davidc+rB[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:57:23
>>Nelson+My
It's the least surprising thing in the world to me
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74. peyton+3F[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 13:17:49
>>davidc+fB
Well, they also have to pick a payment processor. And find somewhere to host it all. And pay for all of the above.
replies(1): >>lbrine+J41
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75. cycrut+EG[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 13:25:18
>>JofArn+Zr
Thank goodness the SEC is protecting people and their money… by sitting on their hands and doing jack shit.
replies(2): >>JumpCr+f51 >>rchaud+Sg1
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76. terafl+mI[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 13:34:44
>>bombca+iy
Until about 2/3 of the way through, I was convinced it was a parody.
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77. jamal-+RK[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 13:48:19
>>bombca+Py
This seems spot on to me. It's all just a tower of dumb greed in the end. Web3 is just stupid expensive P2P without a pure disruption model so they just ate it up
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78. nradov+7M[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 13:54:11
>>Nelson+My
I guess that's no worse than Tim Draper of DFJ continuing to defend Theranos even after it was exposed as a fraud.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/10/early-theranos-investor-tim-...

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79. mcinty+bM[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 13:54:22
>>drewm1+44
> Significant real value was only destroyed forever if the underlying tech for this is based on proof of work.

Terra is a proof-of-stake blockchain

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80. puranj+qR[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 14:20:21
>>MacsHe+nz
I fear that any regulation that enables wider adoption of these wallets will also bring in additional steps that will kill the biggest pros of these wallets currently - privacy and anonymity
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81. Alexan+GZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 14:58:18
>>dropne+2n
Some of the replies to that second tweet thread are hilarious in retrospect:

> But is this any more likely to happen than, say, the global thermonuclear war that is held at bay by the principle of MAD? I feel like we are surrounded by doomsday scenarios; economic and existential. Who would pull the pin on this one? Or is the problem blind faith in an algo? - https://twitter.com/thestephoflife/status/151220218743844864...

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82. lbrine+O31[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 15:14:37
>>grey-a+68
You say this, possibly as someone who knows a lot about this stuff but there are plenty of people (including engineers) who don't know enough to refute the bold claims made by the crypto-evangelists and who be convinced that "obviously X is bad, but our product is completely different".

I personally have lots of misgivings about various crypto but I really don't have enough expertise to argue against someone telling me that I just don't understand and everything is fine.

replies(1): >>grey-a+E93
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83. lbrine+m41[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 15:16:51
>>rsynno+u6
If they are unregulated then it isn't a crime until it is a crime, and in this case, by then far too late to sort out.

Even when it does go wrong, there still might not be a crime any more serious than being an idiot, obviously would be different if the company misrepresents itself for gain, which would be fraud.

I suspect that many of these people genuinely believe their own hype, which is how they convince others to buy into it.

replies(1): >>landem+iQ1
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84. lbrine+J41[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 15:18:20
>>peyton+3F
Crypto doesn't solve this, you still need to pick a currency/exchange and pay them transaction fees. That on top of the potential delay issues/fraud is much harder to deal with in the crypto-sphere etc.
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85. lottin+e51[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 15:20:46
>>MacsHe+nz
What happens when someone steals your key?
replies(2): >>MrMan+cd1 >>puranj+Ip1
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86. JumpCr+f51[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 15:20:49
>>cycrut+EG
> the SEC is protecting people and their money… by sitting on their hands and doing jack shit

It’s unclear if they have jurisdiction. The likes of Coinbase’s Armstrong have certainly been lobbying hard to constrain it. In any case, it’s hard to be sympathetic when escaping regulation is the rallying cry of so many crypto enthusiasts.

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87. MrMan+cd1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 15:59:26
>>lottin+e51
Then logging into all your sites is painless for them
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88. blitza+kf1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 16:07:57
>>ALittl+U6
Hey YC that 25mil you paid for 20% of my company, its 0% now caus I am unethical.
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89. mhh__+Kf1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 16:10:08
>>rsynno+u6
I don't know if it should be illegal to be a fool.

Where is the line between an outright scam and just people believing their own bullshit.

replies(1): >>tshadd+Td2
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90. rchaud+gg1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 16:13:13
>>JofArn+Zr
Without wanting to defend the VCs, this is the same deal they would strike by buying equity in a company. It's in their interest to take a stake at lowball prices so they can 100x or whatever when it's time to IPO.
replies(1): >>redism+iR8
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91. rchaud+Sg1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 16:16:38
>>cycrut+EG
What legal jurisidiction do they have to intervene?
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92. puranj+Ip1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 16:57:01
>>lottin+e51
You lose access to your account and all its funds

Which is why I said that the tech really needs a lot of improvements. But the core idea of a browser wallet that takes care of logins and payments is really powerful and might just be crypto’s killer app

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93. moneyw+yM1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 18:50:20
>>puranj+U7
Do you think the gold rush is over? I was just getting a start in. Are there any areas you would suggest focusing on. The fomo is killing me tbh
replies(1): >>puranj+am2
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94. SilasX+NM1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 18:52:04
>>dropne+2n
Thanks for the more detailed links!

I'm curious why you call the first one cryptic though? It seems the opposite to me: it refers to all the elements by their actual, real-cryptocurrency-world names. To me, "cryptic" would mean that it abstracted away from all the actual terminology used, and just describes it in terms of pure mathematical finance, which would be cryptic since you'd be left wondering, "uh, what is this referring to? Is this an actual thing?"

I also don't see how it works as a recruiting tool. This is a space that involves exploiting domain knowledge, and it's trying to bring in expert outsiders who just haven't yet used their analytical expertise in this domain. But tweets heavily depend on you already knowing how all these protocols work (e.g. what staking/minting/gauge weight mean). Such a person, if an expert analyst as well, would already be working in the field or exploiting that knowledge themselves, and you wouldn't be plucking such diamonds out of the Twitter rough.

replies(1): >>dropne+QS1
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95. landem+iQ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 19:09:16
>>lbrine+m41
If sold to people in USA and if SEC deems it should have been registered as a security, then get ready for a well-deserved enforcement action. Would not want to be an American and on board of directors or a senior contributor or part owner.
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96. dropne+QS1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 19:23:32
>>SilasX+NM1
they hid the answer to find junior analysts instead of stating the solution outright

https://twitter.com/galois_capital/status/148693794923729715...

replies(1): >>SilasX+XU1
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97. SilasX+XU1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 19:33:24
>>dropne+QS1
Well, yeah, of course they hid the answer. My point was that making it cryptic would be removing the real names of the referents.
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98. tshadd+Td2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 21:13:44
>>mhh__+Kf1
Isn't that ultimately one of the purposes of financial regulations? Like you're not allowed to start a pyramid scheme even if you don't know that phrase or concept, don't realize that it's fundamentally unsound, and don't intend to take advantage of people.
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99. puranj+am2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 22:05:31
>>moneyw+yM1
100% over for now. No one is making any money right now, except for developers getting salaries and smart contract auditors

Whether it comes back or not will depend, imo, on Bitcoin adhering to the 4 year cycle. So far, Bitcoin has gone up after every halving. Bitcoin leads and the market follows on the “inevitability” of Bitcoin going up after a halving.

But Bitcoin has also only existed in a relaxed regulatory regime and a monetary policy of low rates and cheap money. Now cheap money is off the table and the market has become too big to go unregulated.

If Bitcoin doesn’t go up in the next cycle, it might just break faith in the market and then who knows?

I’d check back in mid-late 2023 if I were you. You might also want to learn some solidity development. All the decent devs I know who were active from 2019 onwards made 8 figures this run

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100. capito+Y83[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-20 05:40:58
>>ramraj+B2
No, it's even worse, it went from one idiot to a scam artist that will use the money to build more scams.
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101. grey-a+E93[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-20 05:48:57
>>lbrine+O31
So why is your default position that they are right and this is a new paradigm?

Surely the onus is on those promoting such schemes to convincingly explain their workings; if you can get 20% a year the explanation had better be good...

This is just the last resort of a scoundrel who knows they can’t explain their scam.

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102. grey-a+1a3[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-20 05:52:33
>>pagane+x3
a16z is also heavily invested in crypto and nft startups.
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103. webmav+524[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-20 13:38:33
>>thaway+Rs
Here you go: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31447159
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104. webmav+x84[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-20 14:08:18
>>patric+t8
It would be an interesting side bet, wouldn't it?
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105. webmav+3b4[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-20 14:19:50
>>ZeroGr+3u
Frankly the shovel salesmen were relatively small time, since some miners brought their own, some quit and sold theirs (whether bought or brought), and some shovels were, um, just found lying around, "Goodness, whatever could have happened to that poor miner?"

The real money was in services (brothels, gambling, baths) and consumables (food, booze).

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106. redism+iR8[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-22 07:23:41
>>rchaud+gg1
This scheme is certainly faster than an IPO which usually takes 10+ years
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