zlacker

I wonder how much of the limited sales of the iPhone mini could be attributed to the branding? What if Apple were to drop the mini and make this the base iPhone, with the other models being Plus, Pro, Max? Margins may be poorer with Mini, so it likely won’t happen, but I feel mini sales could be much higher if they wanted them to be.

>>dr_+(OP)
Yeah you can imagine two purposes for the mini:

1. Cheaper iPhone

2. You don’t want to carry a big iPhone and you have a Mac/iPad nearby anyway for anything complicated so a big phone is unnecessary.

The second case should motivate wanting eg their ‘pro’ cameras in the small phone but the first case motivates making it cheap and low-margin. You can also imagine a world where apple markets a mini phone as also being an optional companion to a bigger phone, but they already have the watch for that.

>>dr_+(OP)
Sounds like you've answered your own question. Margins are lower, why would they want to sell more of those compared to the regular iphones?

>>dr_+(OP)
> Margins may be poorer with Mini,

But they don't necessarily have to be. We've never had an option where, for the same price, you could choose screen sizes. There's a sizable portion of people for whom larger phones are simply difficult to use. Would I have paid an extra $50 for my iPhone 12 mini? Yep, because I was buying based on the size, not the price.

This is so weird compared to 20 years ago, where the smaller the phone was, the more expensive it was. The big bulky phones were a sign that you couldn't afford the smaller one. A few friends joke that I couldn't afford a 'real' phone when I pull out my 12 mini, which... is nuts because I bought it outright, and a couple of them worry about 'when can I upgrade? oh, let me check how many more payments I have on this current model'.

>>mtoner+L4
So increase the price?

As a criminal defense attorney, I will never own a FaceID device. Ever. I owned an iPhone 7, then an iPhone 8, then an iPhone SE 2020, then another iPhone SE 2020. I may upgrade to the iPhone SE 2022.

Cost is not an issue for me. I don't buy the iPhone SE because I'm cheap. I buy the iPhone SE because it is, on balance, hands down the best phone Apple makes right now for people who value convenience, portability, and security.

I tried the iPhone Mini when I broke my first iPhone SE while hiking. I don't trust FaceID to work when I want it to (masks, glasses vs contacts, etc. tripped it up). I don't trust FaceID not to work when I don't want it to. I ended up returning it and going back to the SE.

I don't think I'm alone.

>>torste+w8
I stuck with the 12 mini, vs going to another SE (had SE for years). I miss the Touch ID. A lot. Having to look at something, then swipe up, then ... do other stuff to get back to the home screen, instead of literally just putting my thumb on a button the pressing it... it's so much more convenience. Of course, you can just turn off the face stuff altogether, but you lose some security (and IIRC, some of payment stuff won't work?)

>>torste+w8
I have bought the iPhone SE 2022 mainly because it has TouchID. Being cheaper is just icing on the cake.

>>torste+w8
Just curious what impact / relevance does being a criminal defense attorney have on using a device with FaceID?

>>torste+w8
Very interesting - what is there specifically about being a criminal defence attorney that makes you district FaceID? Data sharing issues? Securing personal / work data?

I’m not disagreeing, I’m very wary of these mechanisms, just curious about your thought process.

>>torste+w8
Just an idea in case they kill touchid options: if you get an apple watch you can keep your phone unlocked when nearby and just disable faceid.

They have also recently improved FaceID to work with masks on, so the situation has improved since you tested the mini.

>>shawn-+da
IANAL. But from what i gather you cant be compelled to enter a passcode or forces to unlock phone with a fingerprint. There is no clear such protections for face.

>>rich_s+Ia
IANAL, but you might be compelled to give up a fingerprint, face or other biometric access options; you cannot be compelled to give up a passphrase or something stored in your mind.

>>codesl+4d
More or less. In my jurisdiction you can be compelled to give up biometrics, which has been expanded to include biometric unlocking. However, it requires a separate authorization, which in many cases will take long enough for the paperwork for TouchID to time out, and passcodes cannot be compelled (again, in my jurisdiction). There is no such protection for directing you to look at your phone.

For clients under investigation who have FaceID or similar unlocking for phones or computers, we always recommend they disable it and just use a passcode until the investigation is complete.

>>dan-ro+B4
But they could have both things in two separate models.

Wasn't the 11 pro the size of the mini / SE? I don't remember whether there was an 11 mini, but it seems to me that 11 pro / SE were exactly that, and the current minis / se are the size of the 7/8/se/11 pro.

I the time I couldn't justify buying a new phone, but I remember late last year, when I figured I could start looking, I was possibly contemplating getting the 13 pro, for the camera. But when I saw how huge it was, I immediately abandoned the idea.

>>rich_s+Ia
Not OP but from various laws around the world Police can generally use something physical to unlock your device - your face, your thumb - but they cannot get you to put in your password or pass code without a warrant.

Granted this kind of breaks down at borders where they have special laws, but for inside various countries it still holds.

>>rich_s+Ia
> In a 2014 case out of a Virginia state court that seems to have set off the current debate, police obtained a search warrant to search a suspect’s home and to seize various items, including his smartphone that had TouchID enabled.

> The judge in that case drew a bright line: Under the Fifth Amendment, police could not force the suspect to communicate his passcode, but they could force him to use his fingerprint to unlock the device. The reason?

> Providing a fingerprint was “non-testimonial,” because it did not require the suspect to produce anything from his own mind. On the other hand, to give up your personal passcode is classically testimonial, since it comes from your head.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/surveillance-te...

>>torste+w8
Can you not... disable FaceID?

You can set any iPhone to use a passcode every time, disable TouchID, FaceID, whatever.

>>torste+We
Like you advise your clients, no matter what the law says, you can't be compelled to unlock your phone with FaceID if you don't set up FaceID on your phone. I don't understand why this would prevent you from buying one.

>>vladva+2f
first gen SE is smallest, and both it and the 2nd/3rd gen SE are smaller than the 11 pro (though the latter is closer, only 0.2" smaller in both length and width).

The iphone 12 mini and 13 mini are both smaller than the 2nd/3rd gen SE but larger than the 1st gen SE.

The 2nd/3rd gen SE is the same size as the iphone 8.

>>skylan+fg
Which is why Apple put in a kill switch for Face ID (or Touch ID), if you hold down the power button (or power and volume down for newer iPhones) until the “Slide to Power Off” screen appears, the next unlock will require your passcode.

>>pge+Ah
I used a first-gen SE up until last year and thought it was great. I know it was super old, but it being really small was one of the biggest selling points of it for me.

>>pwinns+xg
Yes you can disable FaceID unlock. I only use it for not very important apps but just unlock my phone with a passcode. You can also set the time for how long to wait until your phone requires the passcode again, and you can set that so that when you lock, the passcode is needed immediately after.

>>mgkims+Q7
That's not a totally fair comparison, because before smartphones there was no inherent advantage to a phone being larger. You got exactly the same features either way, so miniature was premium. Now the big screen is the premium feature.

>>easton+uj
Additionally, just because a phone has Face ID doesn’t mean you’re obligated to configure it.

>>daemin+wf
You don't have to enable FaceID, though.

>>torste+w8
FaceID can be disabled. Reliably. Not sure I see what the issue is here.

You can also quickly, discreetly, and temporarily disable it, for instance if you are stopped by police. So this just isn't a real issue.

>>dan-ro+B4
> 1. Cheaper iPhone

> 2. You don’t want to carry a big iPhone

If you add those two up, you get "Middle school kids".

Though the apple watch with its own SIM has solved some of the "contact device without instagram" needs that parents want with their kids.

>>skylan+fg
Because we all know that police always operate within the law and would never lie about coercing a suspect to unlock their phone.

Or, if they really wanted the phone unlocked, they could just follow the suspect and tackle him while he is using it.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/12/uk-police-unlock...

>>daemin+wf
And in various places around the world, police use rubber hose decryption…

>>scarfa+xG
Well yeah, if you're on the street in Russia and the police in full military gear ask you to unlock your phone, I'd like to say I would resist and decline but I doubt it.

>>dr_+(OP)
Keep a base and make the Mini another premium option. It's not always that a smaller device is weaker but that it required sophisticated engineering to get everything that compact.

I'd pick a name that suggests that it's a lifestyle thing rather than being spartan.