zlacker

So increase the price?

As a criminal defense attorney, I will never own a FaceID device. Ever. I owned an iPhone 7, then an iPhone 8, then an iPhone SE 2020, then another iPhone SE 2020. I may upgrade to the iPhone SE 2022.

Cost is not an issue for me. I don't buy the iPhone SE because I'm cheap. I buy the iPhone SE because it is, on balance, hands down the best phone Apple makes right now for people who value convenience, portability, and security.

I tried the iPhone Mini when I broke my first iPhone SE while hiking. I don't trust FaceID to work when I want it to (masks, glasses vs contacts, etc. tripped it up). I don't trust FaceID not to work when I don't want it to. I ended up returning it and going back to the SE.

I don't think I'm alone.

>>torste+(OP)
I stuck with the 12 mini, vs going to another SE (had SE for years). I miss the Touch ID. A lot. Having to look at something, then swipe up, then ... do other stuff to get back to the home screen, instead of literally just putting my thumb on a button the pressing it... it's so much more convenience. Of course, you can just turn off the face stuff altogether, but you lose some security (and IIRC, some of payment stuff won't work?)

>>torste+(OP)
I have bought the iPhone SE 2022 mainly because it has TouchID. Being cheaper is just icing on the cake.

>>torste+(OP)
Just curious what impact / relevance does being a criminal defense attorney have on using a device with FaceID?

>>torste+(OP)
Very interesting - what is there specifically about being a criminal defence attorney that makes you district FaceID? Data sharing issues? Securing personal / work data?

I’m not disagreeing, I’m very wary of these mechanisms, just curious about your thought process.

>>torste+(OP)
Just an idea in case they kill touchid options: if you get an apple watch you can keep your phone unlocked when nearby and just disable faceid.

They have also recently improved FaceID to work with masks on, so the situation has improved since you tested the mini.

>>shawn-+H1
IANAL. But from what i gather you cant be compelled to enter a passcode or forces to unlock phone with a fingerprint. There is no clear such protections for face.

>>rich_s+c2
IANAL, but you might be compelled to give up a fingerprint, face or other biometric access options; you cannot be compelled to give up a passphrase or something stored in your mind.

>>codesl+y4
More or less. In my jurisdiction you can be compelled to give up biometrics, which has been expanded to include biometric unlocking. However, it requires a separate authorization, which in many cases will take long enough for the paperwork for TouchID to time out, and passcodes cannot be compelled (again, in my jurisdiction). There is no such protection for directing you to look at your phone.

For clients under investigation who have FaceID or similar unlocking for phones or computers, we always recommend they disable it and just use a passcode until the investigation is complete.

>>rich_s+c2
Not OP but from various laws around the world Police can generally use something physical to unlock your device - your face, your thumb - but they cannot get you to put in your password or pass code without a warrant.

Granted this kind of breaks down at borders where they have special laws, but for inside various countries it still holds.

>>rich_s+c2
> In a 2014 case out of a Virginia state court that seems to have set off the current debate, police obtained a search warrant to search a suspect’s home and to seize various items, including his smartphone that had TouchID enabled.

> The judge in that case drew a bright line: Under the Fifth Amendment, police could not force the suspect to communicate his passcode, but they could force him to use his fingerprint to unlock the device. The reason?

> Providing a fingerprint was “non-testimonial,” because it did not require the suspect to produce anything from his own mind. On the other hand, to give up your personal passcode is classically testimonial, since it comes from your head.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/surveillance-te...

>>torste+(OP)
Can you not... disable FaceID?

You can set any iPhone to use a passcode every time, disable TouchID, FaceID, whatever.

>>torste+q6
Like you advise your clients, no matter what the law says, you can't be compelled to unlock your phone with FaceID if you don't set up FaceID on your phone. I don't understand why this would prevent you from buying one.

>>skylan+J7
Which is why Apple put in a kill switch for Face ID (or Touch ID), if you hold down the power button (or power and volume down for newer iPhones) until the “Slide to Power Off” screen appears, the next unlock will require your passcode.

>>pwinns+18
Yes you can disable FaceID unlock. I only use it for not very important apps but just unlock my phone with a passcode. You can also set the time for how long to wait until your phone requires the passcode again, and you can set that so that when you lock, the passcode is needed immediately after.

>>easton+Ya
Additionally, just because a phone has Face ID doesn’t mean you’re obligated to configure it.

>>daemin+07
You don't have to enable FaceID, though.

>>torste+(OP)
FaceID can be disabled. Reliably. Not sure I see what the issue is here.

You can also quickly, discreetly, and temporarily disable it, for instance if you are stopped by police. So this just isn't a real issue.

>>skylan+J7
Because we all know that police always operate within the law and would never lie about coercing a suspect to unlock their phone.

Or, if they really wanted the phone unlocked, they could just follow the suspect and tackle him while he is using it.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/12/uk-police-unlock...

>>daemin+07
And in various places around the world, police use rubber hose decryption…

>>scarfa+1y
Well yeah, if you're on the street in Russia and the police in full military gear ask you to unlock your phone, I'd like to say I would resist and decline but I doubt it.