zlacker

[parent] [thread] 36 comments
1. roelsc+(OP)[view] [source] 2022-05-17 15:10:39
A problem is that even within the niche of small phones, not everybody has the same wishes.

Compared to your ideal specifications, my wishes are: support for microSD card storage; battery that easily and reliably lasts a full day with moderate phone usage; fingerprint sensor, not necessarily on the power button; camera decent, not necessarily great (I don't care that much about low light performance, for example).

I'm tempted to sign up even with the specifications as you list them though. Missing microSD card support could be the major dealbreaker. Or alternatively some other user-friendly reliable method of getting lots of files from my PC to the phone's storage, but so far I haven't found any. Early Android versions supporter USB mass storage and that worked pretty well, but the transfer method implemented on newer versions is very slow and never works reliably for me.

replies(8): >>JumpCr+I3 >>onli+i4 >>opan+5m >>nabaki+Mp >>290830+ky >>scarfa+wL >>jpinda+hP >>forest+Ke1
2. JumpCr+I3[view] [source] 2022-05-17 15:26:57
>>roelsc+(OP)
> Missing microSD card support could be the major dealbreaker

And for the other guy a 3.5mm jack and for a third a physical off switch and look at that we have too many dealbreaker features for the form factor.

Power users tend to have more dealbreakers than the average consumer. Anecdotally, it seems power users prefer smaller phones. This might be what kills the small phone factor.

replies(5): >>kuschk+c4 >>samatm+c6 >>frostw+29 >>debase+Nf >>pessim+AI
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3. kuschk+c4[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 15:28:37
>>JumpCr+I3
The Moto G (2013) had a microSD slot, a 3.5" port and all of it in a 4.5" form factor.

Why can't we just get an updated version of that?

replies(2): >>stevek+B5 >>tom_+2a
4. onli+i4[view] [source] 2022-05-17 15:29:26
>>roelsc+(OP)
You shouldn't be downvoted. It's exactly the problem. My main factors are: Replaceable battery, headphone jack, LineageOS (or other custom rom) support. If those are matched the smaller the better - I loved my HP Veer, which I admit did not meet these requirements - but without them size is not the main factor.

Those additional requirements further splinter the market.

But what's the point in buying a small phone if it does not meet these standards, which are all about longevity? Then it will just be unusable in ~2 years. Which would make it no better than the otherwise perfect small phone I already have at home, the Veer.

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5. stevek+B5[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 15:34:26
>>kuschk+c4
I started with one of those, and every two-three years I upgrade to the most recently available one.

Over time the MotoG phones have been getting larger - to the extent that now the one I have doesn't fit in my sporran, if I go out wearing a kilt.

replies(1): >>Bucket+Bj2
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6. samatm+c6[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 15:37:11
>>JumpCr+I3
I believe the bit about power users is the HN effect at work, the main customers for small phones are people with small hands and/or pockets, who are disproportionally women.

Women are also overrepresented in the Really Big Phone market, and wield them two-handed.

They also trend heavily iPhone in the US market, but that leaves plenty of alpha for the manufacturer who serves the actual market for small-form-factor Android phones.

replies(3): >>stormb+lc >>rich_s+zi >>scarfa+0M
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7. frostw+29[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 15:49:21
>>JumpCr+I3
I disagree. I bet many average consumers would want a small phone for work, travel, etc.

IMHO vendors try not to sell small flagship phones so you have to buy a foldable phone, which is way more expensive.

replies(1): >>maskli+ji
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8. tom_+2a[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 15:53:36
>>kuschk+c4
It didn't have an SD card slot of any kind!
replies(1): >>gusgus+Lg
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9. stormb+lc[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 16:03:10
>>samatm+c6
I agree with this. Power users are a tiny market compared to “people who can’t reasonably fit a modern phone in their pocket.”

But if you have to keep your phone in a purse anyways, why not just get a big one?

So mostly the people in that market who still care are the ones who can’t or don’t want to carry a purse, which is also a smaller market. (I’m in this market though, so i am sad)

replies(1): >>rst+4f
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10. rst+4f[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 16:13:53
>>stormb+lc
Not everyone wants a phone that they have to operate two-handed -- particularly those with small hands to begin with.
replies(2): >>eroppl+gA >>stormb+aM
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11. debase+Nf[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 16:16:49
>>JumpCr+I3
I definitely want a smaller phone but I don't know that I'd call myself a power user given that I use my phone less now than I have in the past 5 years - but it has been a total replacement for things like photography.
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12. gusgus+Lg[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 16:21:19
>>tom_+2a
Wikipedia says it did, at least on the LTE model.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_G_(1st_generation)

Edit: ah found another source as well about it being on the LTE model https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Motorola-Moto-G-LTE_id8655

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13. maskli+ji[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 16:28:11
>>frostw+29
> I bet many average consumers would want a small phone for work, travel, etc.

They neither say they do nor buy those which are available.

Maybe they'd like a smaller phone for a limited set of situations (though there’s no evidence of that) but they’re not going to buy two phones, so that’s not relevant.

It's like asking a single-issue voter their preference on other subjects.

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14. rich_s+zi[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 16:29:18
>>samatm+c6
As a non-power-user, I mostly keep my phone in the pocket, where I’d like it to be small.

I’d almost go for a dumb phone, almost... but then I need emails, maps and WhatsApp.

I don’t need 50 filters, 3 cameras, razor-thin (yet somehow enormous) body, more Storage than my laptop, etc etc...

replies(2): >>daemin+zn >>jjav+e81
15. opan+5m[view] [source] 2022-05-17 16:44:20
>>roelsc+(OP)
>Or alternatively some other user-friendly reliable method of getting lots of files from my PC to the phone's storage, but so far I haven't found any.

SyncThing, sftp from a termux shell, or primitive ftpd.

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16. daemin+zn[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 16:50:31
>>rich_s+zi
Yeah, I really wanted to ditch owning a phone at all when my last one broke but I realised that too many services require having some sort of authenticator or phone for two factor authentication. Banks literally require having a mobile phone as they will require you to authenticate transactions through their app. So I'm still chained to the damn thing.
17. nabaki+Mp[view] [source] 2022-05-17 16:59:57
>>roelsc+(OP)
> Early Android versions supporter USB mass storage and that worked pretty well, but the transfer method implemented on newer versions is very slow and never works reliably for me.

Have you tried both connecting your phone to your computer via USB and connecting your phone to a USB stick?

replies(1): >>roelsc+Su
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18. roelsc+Su[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 17:26:04
>>nabaki+Mp
Connecting my phone to a USB stick is not something I have tried yet. I wasn't even aware that that's supposed to work.Thanks, I'll give that a try.
19. 290830+ky[view] [source] 2022-05-17 17:41:47
>>roelsc+(OP)
> Early Android versions supporter USB mass storage and that worked pretty well, but the transfer method implemented on newer versions is very slow and never works reliably for me.

Sounds like you haven't been using ADB. Normally, like you've seen, getting files on or off a modern Android handset is a terrible experience. Considering I only do bulk transfers from my own PC, I just apt install adb, then adb push $files $destination. Highly recommend - it's one of the few ways Android is still dramatically better for techy users.

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20. eroppl+gA[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 17:51:06
>>rst+4f
The evidence suggests that most folks do, though.

I don't, to be clear--I'm on your side here. My iPhone 11 is way too big, I just needed a new phone during that spot where the SE was long in the tooth. But people genuinely seem to like dinner plates as phones.

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21. pessim+AI[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 18:30:45
>>JumpCr+I3
No, just do all three of those things. Add a couple millimeters to the thickness.
22. scarfa+wL[view] [source] 2022-05-17 18:45:42
>>roelsc+(OP)
You want a small phone. But you want one with better battery life and you want an Android?

Between the inefficiency of non Apple ARM chipsets and the inefficiency of Android, that’s not likely to happen.

replies(1): >>forest+0j1
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23. scarfa+0M[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 18:48:16
>>samatm+c6
Android manufacturers besides Samsung already don’t make any money. The last thing they are going to do is go after an even smaller niche.
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24. stormb+aM[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 18:49:44
>>rst+4f
Again, i think the phenomenon here is similar: if you can’t even get a phone you can operate one handed properly, you may as well get a bigger screen anyways.

I’m not saying that this is people’s preferred choice, I’m saying it’s a logical decision given the choices available that seems counterintuitive from first principles (and assuming a market with real choices).

replies(1): >>cannam+NV
25. jpinda+hP[view] [source] 2022-05-17 19:05:45
>>roelsc+(OP)
I use Total Commander to transfer files. It has plugins for many different kinds of transfer, but I mainly use SMB for computers on my lan and sometimes sftp for others.
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26. cannam+NV[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 19:44:58
>>stormb+aM
And it's been a long time since any available phone could be operated one handed by most users. An iPhone Mini isn't really one-handable either.

I am the small-phone-lover this article is addressing, and I did sign up to their list - I have an Xperia XZ1 Compact and no plans to upgrade because there's nothing to upgrade it to - but my biggest complaint about the Compact is that it's too big already. I'm a not-quite-six-foot man and I can't reach to buttons in the corners one handed. So why bother? It seems that my preference is not entirely rational after all.

replies(1): >>Michae+3i1
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27. jjav+e81[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 21:03:24
>>rich_s+zi
> As a non-power-user, I mostly keep my phone in the pocket, where I’d like it to be small.

> I’d almost go for a dumb phone

But nobody makes a small dumb phone either! I'd be ok with a dumb phone, if it is small.

28. forest+Ke1[view] [source] 2022-05-17 21:44:26
>>roelsc+(OP)
> user-friendly reliable method of getting lots of files from my PC to the phone's storage

Have you tried KDE Connect? (Hint: It's not only for KDE desktop users.)

https://kdeconnect.kde.org/

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29. Michae+3i1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 22:05:19
>>cannam+NV
This. I would be willing to bet 99.9% of the human population do not have fingers long enough to operate the iphone 13 mini completely onehanded, i.e. reach all 4 corners of the screen without letting the phone slip.

The actual market for a truly one handle-able phone is enormous. It's just not possible to fit modern phone functions into a package that small though.

Who will pay flagship prices for a phone with 3 hours of battery life?

replies(1): >>stormb+ru1
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30. forest+0j1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 22:13:16
>>scarfa+wL
> that’s not likely to happen.

Why not? It has happened before.

My Xperia XZ1 Compact:

- runs Android (I'm on Android 10, but might upgrade)

- measures about 14cm diagonally and 8-9mm thick

- uses around 10-15% charge per day of light use (without Google services)

- has a standard headphone jack

- has stereo speakers

- has decent front and back cameras, with no bump

- has a microSD slot

- has a USB type C port

- has a fingerprint sensor (I disabled mine)

- is water-tight and dust-tight (IP68)

- supports VoLTE

- supports WiFi calling

My previous phone was similar, and a bit slimmer. The one before that didn't get such good battery life, but its physical keyboard, swappable battery, and even smaller size made up for having to charge more often.

Obviously, these devices are not common, but they are made from time to time. I'm looking at hardware right now that proves there is no technical barrier. I don't see any reason to dissuade people from asking for a new model.

replies(1): >>scarfa+9l1
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31. scarfa+9l1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 22:30:07
>>forest+0j1
It’s also a phone that was first announced in 2016, by a company that has lost money for the past 5 years and is basically retreating from the global market.

https://www.androidheadlines.com/2019/05/sony-mobile-strateg...

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of its mobile phone strategy.

And it last a long time not using any services that make Android what it is to most users (ie using Google service) is not a mass market selling point.

replies(1): >>forest+Sn1
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32. forest+Sn1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 22:55:26
>>scarfa+9l1
You seem to be arguing in bad faith.

Being a few years old does not make my example less valid. (Arguably the opposite, given that it still works well today.) The point is that it meets GP's needs.

Sony's poor marketing strategy was not caused by one phone model, nor is it a requirement for small phones in general.

You could easily adjust the numbers I quoted to estimate battery life with Google services running. Assume half, or a third, if you like. It would still meet GP's needs.

replies(1): >>scarfa+rs1
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33. scarfa+rs1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 23:36:39
>>forest+Sn1
A phone that is a few years old doesn’t have the energy/battery requirements that new phones have because of a more memory hungry operating system that requires a beefier cheapest, more memory hungry cellular chipsets (5G), Google Services, etc.

And if a company can’t sell a phone profitable, it’s not a viable product.

And he admits that he hardly ever uses it.

And that phone will probably not work at all soon in the US if it doesn’t support VoLTE.

replies(1): >>postal+ye3
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34. stormb+ru1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-17 23:53:30
>>Michae+3i1
Even the SE is rough, and my hands aren’t particularly small.
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35. Bucket+Bj2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 09:42:08
>>stevek+B5
I love this. I propose we henceforth judge all phones by the sporran test.
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36. postal+ye3[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 15:56:11
>>scarfa+rs1
And what if none of what you are claiming is true?
replies(1): >>scarfa+PI3
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37. scarfa+PI3[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 18:42:22
>>postal+ye3
Well it’s definitely true for his phone.
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