zlacker

[parent] [thread] 74 comments
1. iandin+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-04-19 20:30:25
A few years ago I switched from the "Granny Knot" to the "Ian Knot" [0] in order to (1) eliminate the need for "double knotting" and (2) straighten the bow. Despite the few embarrassing times early in the process where friends observed me struggling to tie my shoes, I can confidently say the switch has been worth it.

[0] https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm

replies(20): >>lwansb+D3 >>kilovo+e5 >>oldand+U5 >>ce4+af >>js2+4g >>tiagod+Jj >>dhimes+gp >>keithn+0q >>roland+Wu >>grae_Q+kx >>kuang_+Jx >>m463+CG >>globul+o31 >>skrebb+fc1 >>spurgu+sm1 >>Zecc+jz1 >>circui+bc2 >>fho+Rn2 >>phibz+328 >>sanity+eAd
2. lwansb+D3[view] [source] 2021-04-19 20:52:03
>>iandin+(OP)
I did this too and also momentarily forgot how to tie my shoes! (Forgot the new method, and the old method.) Now I have saved literally minutes of my life on shoe tying.
replies(3): >>elliek+Nk >>laurie+PN >>tomcam+fq1
3. kilovo+e5[view] [source] 2021-04-19 21:01:38
>>iandin+(OP)
I recently did this too, took about a week to get in the habit but now it's great!
4. oldand+U5[view] [source] 2021-04-19 21:06:13
>>iandin+(OP)
I've been using the Ian knot since around 2005 and it's easily the most impactful "life hack" I've ever made. My shoes basically never come untied.
replies(3): >>procin+k6 >>tiagod+Pj >>mrtnmc+T61
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5. procin+k6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 21:08:45
>>oldand+U5
Doesn’t it still produce the same knot as the standard shoe tie knot? I thought it was just a faster method?
replies(6): >>dsego+G6 >>ddlath+U6 >>orthox+b7 >>latort+D9 >>iandin+8f >>merist+jg
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6. dsego+G6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 21:12:24
>>procin+k6
One is symmetric, the other one isn't.
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7. ddlath+U6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 21:13:23
>>procin+k6
Yes. I'd guess he means Ian's Secure Knot, which I also now use.

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm

replies(4): >>weaksa+lk >>smrq+Dm >>birktj+Gq >>shellf+U61
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8. orthox+b7[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 21:15:06
>>procin+k6
You are right. It's the same bowtie knot, just tied in a single motion.
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9. latort+D9[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 21:36:50
>>procin+k6
Yes, it does, but the Ian Knot is more reliable, especially in places where you don't have the instant muscle memory like shoelaces. If you learn the standard knot incorrectly it results in you doing a Granny Knot. But if you try to tie the Ian's Knot, you can't tie it incorrectly because it just doesn't work. And of course yes, it's faster.

ETA: Also, OP may have been tying a Granny Knot from time to time which results in shoelaces coming untied very quickly. So the Ian knot gets you both faster tied shoes and shoes that stay tied.

replies(2): >>nemetr+Ce >>jeffpe+sm
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10. nemetr+Ce[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 22:19:45
>>latort+D9
Some time after I started tying Ian's way, I surprised myself by effortlessly tying an apron behind my back.
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11. iandin+8f[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 22:23:57
>>procin+k6
You are correct, as indicated by the following quote on the page I linked: “The finished Ian Knot is identical to either the Standard Shoelace Knot [...].”

Changing my Granny Knot (unbalanced) to a Standard Shoelace Knot (balanced) would have produced the same result. However, I found the Ian Knot approach to be helpful in preventing me from absentmindedly reverting back to the Granny Knot.

12. ce4+af[view] [source] 2021-04-19 22:24:02
>>iandin+(OP)
Also for fun times observe people's knots around you :)

Especially funny to casually mention it to coworkers or seniors

13. js2+4g[view] [source] 2021-04-19 22:31:19
>>iandin+(OP)
The "Ian Knot" pairs well with the Japanese T-shirt folding technique:

https://youtu.be/dNr1oLhZ0zs

Also, tie wearers, take the time to learn a Full Windsor:

https://youtu.be/HXJx8j7JpKY

replies(5): >>tunesm+yv >>techra+oI >>fireat+3L >>globul+231 >>dragon+051
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14. merist+jg[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 22:33:19
>>procin+k6
Went to the shoes to test: Ian Knot is faster and the cord is “relaxed” (less internal stress to contribute towards loosening) rather than twisted.

I’ll try words to describe the Ian Knot: Cross the laces, tuck one under the other, and pull; let go, then pick up a “bunny ear” loop in each hand, one on either side of the pre-knot; with your middle finger, push the out-side of each “ear” through the opposite loop; with thumb and middle finger of each hand, grab the loops simultaneously as they come through; pull tight. Looks like a double knot (two loops, each around the neck of the other) with each free end fed back through, forming the loops and ensuring easy undoing.

15. tiagod+Jj[view] [source] 2021-04-19 23:05:57
>>iandin+(OP)
I've been using the Ian knot for many years, to the point I'm now very slow making the normal knot.

I find the Ian knot effective enough, but I think it comes undone more easily than a normal shoelace knot, I had to tie my shoes a lot back when I was outside for many hours of the day and night.

replies(1): >>ilyagr+An
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16. tiagod+Pj[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 23:06:55
>>oldand+U5
How do you do it? I've been using it for more than a decade too and I can't make it that solid. I'm very active and clumsy so I'm really stressing the knot lots of times.
replies(1): >>maxeri+es
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17. weaksa+lk[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 23:11:29
>>ddlath+U6
the ian's secure knot is one of those things that you don't think will make much of a difference to your daily life but it's like inventing a way to not stub your toe every now and again. well worth it.
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18. elliek+Nk[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 23:15:19
>>lwansb+D3
Is there a word or a phrase for this phenomenon? When something becomes a habit requiring no thought at all and then, when forced to actually think about it, the brain draws a complete blank?
replies(7): >>mindfu+gn >>sixhob+6o >>kibwen+yy >>davidg+hI >>__mhar+xL >>HPsqua+Q71 >>arc-in+2b1
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19. jeffpe+sm[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 23:26:32
>>latort+D9
Well, tying the Ian Knot still requires you to do your starting knot in the correct orientation. Mixing it up will still result in the Granny Knot. From the other responses, it sounds like some are still getting Granny Knots even when using Ian's tying method.
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20. smrq+Dm[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 23:28:49
>>ddlath+U6
I learned to tie Ian's Secure Knot when I had a pair of shoelaces that liked to come untied constantly (I guess the material was too slippery, or something). Never had the problem again.

Some other trivial life hacks aren't necessarily worth it in practice. With the T-shirt folding one, for instance, the bottom shirt of a stack of shirts tends to unfold itself when you pick up the stack, since one arm of the shirt is basically just folded underneath. The mild inconvenience outweighed the mild convenience for me, and I no longer fold shirts that way.

I'll probably tie my shoes with Ian's knot for life, though.

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21. mindfu+gn[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 23:33:32
>>elliek+Nk
Personally I call this « playing piano », as I’m not sure I’ve ever gotten passed this stage when practicing..
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22. ilyagr+An[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 23:35:47
>>tiagod+Jj
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the end result of the Ian knot is supposed to be identical to the standard shoelace knot, see https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknottech.htm.

There is also https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm.

There is a handy listing of which knots are actually different towards the bottom of this page: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/knotcomparison.htm#identica...

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23. sixhob+6o[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-19 23:41:18
>>elliek+Nk
In classical music at least it's often referred to as a "memory lapse"
replies(1): >>Andrex+cu
24. dhimes+gp[view] [source] 2021-04-19 23:54:06
>>iandin+(OP)
This looks like a square knot with loops- which is exactly how I tie mine
25. keithn+0q[view] [source] 2021-04-20 00:01:33
>>iandin+(OP)
love this guys site, and I like that fast one, but I find this one a really good one https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm
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26. birktj+Gq[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 00:08:13
>>ddlath+U6
Is it easy to do a tight Ian's Secure Knot? The only place I would need a more secure knot is when skiing and then I also need to tie the laces very tight. Keeping the laces tight while creating the loops seems slightly difficult.
replies(2): >>saalwe+tC >>scroll+RY
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27. maxeri+es[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 00:23:51
>>tiagod+Pj
Try doing a double knot. There's a double starting knot shown:

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/doublestartknot.htm

And then also a surgeons knot is shown:

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/surgeonknot.htm

(which doesn't use the double starting knot)

I do both together, starting with two twists and then also wrapping the loops twice.

I experimented with the double knot following some foot pain; the advantage for me is that the knot doesn't really slip any, allowing me to set the tension I want and not have to revisit it. I guess you then also have to make sure not to over-tighten.

I read about it here: https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/running-doc-d...

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28. Andrex+cu[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 00:42:26
>>sixhob+6o
Your comment got me looking into the phenomenon, and I found this great article: https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1994-07-17-19941981...

From 1994!

replies(2): >>coyote+7v >>ie21+mn1
29. roland+Wu[view] [source] 2021-04-20 00:49:37
>>iandin+(OP)
Ian knot is the best! Unfortunately my wife isnt as impressed by my knot tying ability as I thought she would be
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30. coyote+7v[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 00:51:20
>>Andrex+cu
Wonderful article, great find!

And I like being reminded of the great pressure many creative spirits feel. It's serious business, managing pressure and also doing your work.

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31. tunesm+yv[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 00:54:29
>>js2+4g
That Full Windsor - it's a revelation to me that it looks good even without the top button of the shirt buttoned. I also thought I had to button the top button of my shirt, which I hate.
32. grae_Q+kx[view] [source] 2021-04-20 01:10:16
>>iandin+(OP)
I do this as well. Once I learned how to do the Ian knot I never went back.
33. kuang_+Jx[view] [source] 2021-04-20 01:14:46
>>iandin+(OP)
Same here. In fact, in looking at the Ian Knot page again, I might start tying the "Starting Knot" differently as well!
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34. kibwen+yy[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 01:24:11
>>elliek+Nk
Yes, "the centipede effect": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Centipede%27s_Dilemma
replies(1): >>sebmel+0G
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35. saalwe+tC[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 02:17:26
>>birktj+Gq
I'm not sure if it works in this context, but I tie a knot equivalent to Ian's Secure Knot, asymmetrically.

I use the standard "bunny goes around the tree" methodology, except I go around twice before pulling the loop through both.

It might be easier for your use case, because you can hold the knot with one hand while sending the bunny around the tree with the other.

replies(1): >>mPReDi+Eq1
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36. sebmel+0G[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 02:56:14
>>kibwen+yy
What a great poem:

“A centipede was happy – quite!

Until a toad in fun

Said, "Pray, which leg moves after which?"

This raised her doubts to such a pitch,

She fell exhausted in the ditch

Not knowing how to run.“

37. m463+CG[view] [source] 2021-04-20 03:04:30
>>iandin+(OP)
I have shoes I do not untie. For example, I have some mocassins for around the house with a rawhide lace that is basically a decoration. But it comes untied!

So for those kinds of things, I use the ian secure knot: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm

Actually, with the rawhide nonsense on one pair, even that would eventually come loose so I zip-tied the middle of the knot. :)

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38. davidg+hI[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 03:25:05
>>elliek+Nk
Check out the Backwards Brain Bicycle. Lots of fun.

https://youtu.be/MFzDaBzBlL0

replies(2): >>qwerto+k01 >>shard+Cb6
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39. techra+oI[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 03:26:32
>>js2+4g
Every time I try to do the Japanese fold... this is how it ends up: https://i.imgur.com/FBYu2Ry.gif
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40. fireat+3L[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 04:02:39
>>js2+4g
I honestly never find that folding technique better than just.. fold it thrice using the exactly same three folding lines:

https://i.imgur.com/CRxFYwS.png

The end result is identical, not really slower, it's easier to adjust the "proportion' during the process, and it works better with long sleeves with minor adjustment.

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41. __mhar+xL[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 04:08:37
>>elliek+Nk
Emacs!
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42. laurie+PN[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 04:34:57
>>lwansb+D3
A few weeks ago I went to play a piece on the piano. I completely blanked, tried to piece together the intro by ear but wasn't really getting anywhere. My teacher played the intro and then boom, the whole thing was back under my fingers.

The brain really is fascinating.

replies(3): >>dkerst+iO >>Cthulh+J61 >>wcross+b91
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43. dkerst+iO[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 04:38:56
>>laurie+PN
This happens to me all the time when playing guitar. I could be there blankly strumming wondering what the notes were, but the moment I get something right, I’ve got it. Or sometimes it’s that I can’t remember the rhythm at all and I try to hum it or anything at all that might help me remember and once I’ve got the first few moments it comes flooding back.

It doesn’t help that I’m relatively new to guitar.

replies(1): >>virgoe+Pu8
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44. scroll+RY[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 06:34:44
>>birktj+Gq
I'm a figure skater. I tie my regular shoes with Ian's secure knot. My skating boots are tied with more regular knots however. Ski shoes would be very similar.

Ian's secure knot doesn't really make sense on such long laces anyway, and making it tight is not very easy because you can't pull to tighten further like you normally would.

The main advantage of Ian's secure knot is that it doesn't come loose over time. But you won't have that problem in ski or skating shoes because you will be redoing much more of the lacing every single time you put them on; a much tighter one at that. So the few hours you'll have your boots on shouldn't make a difference, and if it does, there's something else off in your lacing technique.

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45. qwerto+k01[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 06:51:58
>>davidg+hI
This is worth a watch, from Smarter Every Day.
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46. globul+231[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 07:17:48
>>js2+4g
Half Windsor is still more in fashion and still produces a neat, symmetrical knot. Beware, though, after learning a good knot you will see the four in hand knot everywhere and it will annoy you.
replies(1): >>js2+dR1
47. globul+o31[view] [source] 2021-04-20 07:21:07
>>iandin+(OP)
I've been using the Ian knot for years now and every now and then (like once a year at most) someone will notice how quickly I tie my laces. It looks impossible for people used to the school method.
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48. dragon+051[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 07:38:17
>>js2+4g
> Also, tie wearers, take the time to learn a Full Windsor

I mean, if you are into attempts to simulate the look of a four-in-hand knot used on a wider piece of material as popularized by a particular celebrity Nazi sympathizer, sure.

Unless you are particularly tall, in which case finding ties long enough to wear with a full windsor is enough trouble that you might as well find something wide enough to achieve the effect the authentic way with a four-in-hand.

replies(1): >>js2+tQ1
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49. Cthulh+J61[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 07:55:34
>>laurie+PN
I went to the shops yesterday and forgot the PIN code for both my cards. I've been typing one of those in for nearly 20 years. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

My mum frequently punches in her postal code instead.

replies(1): >>mkespe+Zg1
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50. mrtnmc+T61[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 07:56:51
>>oldand+U5
Was all excited to learn this knot until I realized none of my shoes have laces, I've fully converting to no-tie quicklaces.
replies(1): >>smeej+bs1
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51. shellf+U61[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 07:56:58
>>ddlath+U6
I like that one also, never comes undone. However there is one major downside: When one of the ends accidentally goes through a loop before pulling on it to untie your shoes, you end up with a very annoying solid knot instead that takes time to fiddle apart.
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52. HPsqua+Q71[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 08:05:10
>>elliek+Nk
That and, apologies in advance, the phenomenon of 'manual breathing'.
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53. wcross+b91[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 08:15:25
>>laurie+PN
Same thing! I had played the piece 5 minutes before the lesson and right after the lesson warmup (I warmup before the lesson so that my teacher thinks I'm better than I really am...ego..self denial...whatever) he asks for the piece and I can't play beyond the first bar.
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54. arc-in+2b1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 08:31:28
>>elliek+Nk
Some refer to it as an effect of muscle memory. Something you can do effortlessly, but can't actually describe how to another person.
55. skrebb+fc1[view] [source] 2021-04-20 08:46:02
>>iandin+(OP)
Wow that site's explanation is amazing. I learned it in 2 minutes! Life changing shit!
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56. mkespe+Zg1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 09:33:49
>>Cthulh+J61
Try to remember the finger movements.
replies(1): >>sdefra+Am1
57. spurgu+sm1[view] [source] 2021-04-20 10:30:02
>>iandin+(OP)
The problem I see with this is that with some types of laces the first knot could loosen up while making the second part. But that might be fixed with technique.
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58. sdefra+Am1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 10:31:44
>>mkespe+Zg1
Works well until you encounter a new keypad layout (eg when going abroad). I locked my card once like this although I had been typing the code for years before.
replies(1): >>waterh+LD3
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59. ie21+mn1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 10:43:42
>>Andrex+cu
Would love to read if anyone has it mirrored? Looks like the original article isn't available for EU market.
replies(1): >>nkurz+JY5
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60. tomcam+fq1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 11:11:33
>>lwansb+D3
I want to say sincerely that this exchange is life-changing. I'm old and in rapidly declining physical health. I feel like my brain is working just fine, but the fact of my always-bad memory has been leaving me with the existentially terrifying question "is that going too?"

I realize now I've been having these incidents all my life. Recently I've had the niggling sensation that maybe it's just self-delusion. Nope! Been going on the whole time, just like the lot of you. Thanks for sharing, and I mean that.

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61. mPReDi+Eq1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 11:16:22
>>saalwe+tC
That's called the Better Bow on the site.

It's the one I use with my paracord laces.

Never comes undone.

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62. smeej+bs1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 11:29:54
>>mrtnmc+T61
I did the same thing! I fixed my granny knot habit years ago, but apparently also subconsciously weeded tie-every-time laces out of my habits--which is saying something, because I rarely wear anything but Chuck Taylors!
63. Zecc+jz1[view] [source] 2021-04-20 12:29:14
>>iandin+(OP)
Same here. You might been interested in learning about the lace lock[0] as well, if you haven't already.

  [0]: https://youtu.be/LXjOLWgWq9k
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64. js2+tQ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 13:55:42
>>dragon+051
The Windsor looks nothing like the four-in-hand. It's a symmetric, full knot. The four-in-hand is asymmetric and skinny. I happen to think the Windsor is the best looking knot here:

https://www.ties.com/how-to-tie-a-tie/windsor

(Scroll down to Explore More Knots.)

I've been using it since I was 13. My father taught it to me. His father taught it to him. I've taught it to my son.

I haven't tied the the Pratt knot before, but it looks like it's a nice nearly symmetrical knot that doesn't use up much of the tie.

replies(1): >>dragon+Cj2
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65. js2+dR1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 13:59:51
>>globul+231
I've been using the Full Windsor since my dad taught it to me when I was 13. I'm not much one for fashion, but I think it's a timeless knot. Apparently James Bond didn't think much of it though. :-)
66. circui+bc2[view] [source] 2021-04-20 15:37:09
>>iandin+(OP)
I remember coming across this website when I was 11 or 12. I went to school and showed the Ian Knot to my friends. I was like "guys, look how fast I can tie my shoelaces". They were all super impressed. I'm 23 now and this is still how I tie my shoelaces
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67. dragon+Cj2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 16:06:16
>>js2+tQ1
> the Windsor looks nothing like the four-in-hand

The Windsor is an attempt to simulate, with a common tie, the look of a knot the late Duke of Windsor was known to wear, which was, in fact, a four-in-hand tied on a much wider (and, I suspect—though I have seen no documentation on this point—differently shaped) piece of material than common ties.

> I've been using it since I was 13. My father taught it to me. His father taught it to him. I've taught it to my son.

I’m not sure what relevance that has; I learned it about the same age, also from my father (who I suspect didn’t learn it from his father, whose personality, age, and socioeconomic background probably would not have inclined him to jump on that particular newfangled fashion trend.)

68. fho+Rn2[view] [source] 2021-04-20 16:23:08
>>iandin+(OP)
Totally worth it!

And going from "Granny Knot" to "Ian Knot" is actually a lot simpler than relearning the correct way to tie the normal knot. I tried that first ... but relearning the exact same finger movements but mirrored was not possible for me.

I also use his "Secure Knot" [1] when hiking ... although my SO ridicules me for tying shoes with the bunny ears technique :-)

[1] https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm

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69. waterh+LD3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-20 21:02:09
>>sdefra+Am1
Android has this "draw a path through some dots in a grid" analogue to a PIN code. On the boot screen, the grid is a somewhat different size than on the unlock screen. This defeated my muscle memory, and my conscious memory had lost its backup.
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70. nkurz+JY5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-21 15:05:23
>>ie21+mn1
Maybe one of these two will work:

https://outline.com/SeEEHt

https://archive.is/D05nu

For the future, you can usually create these for yourself by going to top of the sites that I linked.

replies(1): >>ie21+ey8
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71. shard+Cb6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-21 16:01:25
>>davidg+hI
Isn't it just muscle memory? Like how it is difficult to switch back and forth between a Qwerty keyboard and a Dvorak keyboard, except with the addition of balance thrown in.
72. phibz+328[view] [source] 2021-04-22 03:45:12
>>iandin+(OP)
Seconded. Since switching to the Ian knot I never find myself retieing my shoes. Even the granny knot version stays tied. It's especially good on thin slippery laces used on dress shoes.
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73. virgoe+Pu8[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-22 08:32:11
>>dkerst+iO
> It doesn’t help that I’m relatively new to guitar.

I've played for 16 years and I still have these moments. But thankfully it's so satisfying when the music finally kicks in.

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74. ie21+ey8[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-04-22 09:05:12
>>nkurz+JY5
Works great! Also on other sites, thanks for the tip.
75. sanity+eAd[view] [source] 2021-04-23 22:16:20
>>iandin+(OP)
Yup, the Ian Knot and the Secure Knot (https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm) have taken over my household. The latter is particularly good for kids, who often learn the "bunny ears" method, but then switch to double-knotting and all the attendant untangling hassle.
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