zlacker

I have a slimbook pro (the model before the silver keyboard) and sadly I am very unhappy with it, I got a fairly maxed out version and it's fans are always on full blast and I have found no way to keep the power management under control except throttling the CPU - so it is constantly overheated, suspend is not working properly and the chassis is not strong enough so the fans stall unless you have it on a flat surface. Note that I have some lenovo computer from work which is configured in the exact same way and there are no overheating or suspend issues.

I also got a pinebook pro and I managed to use it a sum total of 12 times (and only on flat surfaces with the power plugged in because otherwise the screen would flicker like a strobe light) before the screen completely gave up and now it's an expensive paperweight.

Still I will keep buying these things.. eventually someone will figure out how to make reliable laptops that align with the ethos of free software. I've researched system76, puri.sm and also lately the way too expensive MNT reform, but really the only laptop people seem to be happy with is thinkpad x220 / x230 which came out 12 years ago.... This makes me sad.

I would pay a lot for a super sturdy laptop which works (and aligns with the free software ethos).

>>openfu+(OP)
> I have a slimbook pro (the model before the silver keyboard) and sadly I am very unhappy with it, I got a fairly maxed out version and it's fans are always on full blast and I have found no way to keep the power management under control except throttling the CPU - so it is constantly overheated, suspend is not working properly and the chassis is not strong enough so the fans stall unless you have it on a flat surface. Note that I have some lenovo computer from work which is configured in the exact same way and there are no overheating or suspend issues.

One of the possible root causes for those symptoms might be dried up (or wrongly applied) cooling paste between the heatsinks and the CPU/GPU.

I highly recommend trying to replace the cooling paste, this may fix all your issues.

I recently did this on my 2 year old Asus laptop and it feels like I just bought a new machine. It went from unusable to I won't have to buy a new laptop for a couple more years. It cost me 10 EUR and maybe half an hour to get it done.

>>openfu+(OP)
Thanks for the tip, I have a x230 with Ubuntu mate (upgraded to 16gb of ram) which I'm super happy with- only complaint is the screen and so was looking with envy at that laptop just now - you snapped me back into reality

>>rbg246+x1
Have you considered Nitrocaster's fHD display mod? I used a LVDS to eDP board to upgrade my dads T420 to a fHD IPS panel and its a night and day difference. https://nitrocaster.me/store/x220-x230-fhd-mod-kit.html

>>openfu+(OP)
What if shambolic failure is, uh, yeah.

>>openfu+(OP)
Excluding the crappy screen resolution, I am still happy running KDE on my x240 (i5, 8GB RAM) :).

>>bboygr+91
I would recommend a thermal pad as an alternative to paste (I bought this: https://www.innovationcooling.com/products/ic-graphite-therm... ).

You won't ever have an issue with dry paste, and from what I can tell the CPU/GPU only runs a degree or so hotter than when using premium thermal paste.

>>amiga-+N2
This is super interesting - would you recommend to someone who has never soldered before?

>>openfu+(OP)
I think the T series is great. I have a T460 (bought off ebay for $140). I had an extra SSD, some old ram sticks I stuck in there and it works great. The dock off of Amazon cost me approximately 20 bucks. The CPU maxes and never goes above 55 C (idles 37-40) and runs almost all my dev tasks as needed. The laptop is approximately the size of my 13" 2015 Macbook Pro (my wife currently has taken that one). I have two headless machines with GPUs if I want to game (via Parsec or Steam streaming) or use GPU for Python notebooks etc.

I've run Fedora and a custom Debian setup in the past (and currently am using Void Linux). Things mostly work with no real issues.

I think perhaps the mistake is paying premium with new and shiny things that haven't stood the test of time is the problem here? If you buy cheap (something that is a known quantity also), you're less likely to feel the b urn of walking away from the shiny / expensive new thing, right?

Note: I also have the X230 (bought off craigslist for ~$100, 2 years ago) and have given that to my dad who has used it happily for years now.

>>angyro+3a
We are in the future. We want Ryzen 4000.

>>depres+f8
Interesting, I’ve always heard that thermal pads are far inferior to paste.

>>openfu+(OP)
As my x220 is quite literally falling apart right now, I'm looking for a replacer. I was hoping something like this would be it. So your comment is a bit of a cold shower.

I have a x220 i7 + SSD + 16GB ram and am mostly happy with it. But for the follow up, a better CPU would be nice (rust compiler mostly), and a bigger screen. I fear the compromise on the track pointer will be unavoidable.

Anybody has some inspiration?

>>openfu+(OP)
>I also got a pinebook pro and I managed to use it a sum total of 12 times (and only on flat surfaces with the power plugged in because otherwise the screen would flicker like a strobe light) before the screen completely gave up and now it's an expensive paperweight.

Was it something like a braveheart edition? Did you get in touch with them? I presume the display is easily replaceable. Community members over reddit say, Pinebook is now reliable and they have ironed out several issues but obviously it wouldn't be as powerful as other laptops being discussed here.

>>openfu+(OP)
I'm running Kubuntu on an i7 series Dell XPS. Can't recall much tweaking needed to get things working, including audio, wifi and GPU.

Every now and then the fans wind up but that is usually down to browser tab going rogue.

>>hyperm+Ab
Custom X210 or X62.

>>hyperm+Ab
Have a look on reddit for /u/xueyao. He makes a couple of modded Thinkpads, including the "X330", which has the X220 keyboard, a 13.3" FHD screen, with plans for an 11th gen version early next year. There are mods aplenty apart from those ones. Internal USB instead of BT, a second MSATA connector, and the currently popular (and on my to-do list) USB-C charging mod.

>>rbg246+r8
Apparently not. I'm devastated! There's a redditor in California offering to do it for people.

Sadly I'm in Australia and the postal systems are crazy right now.

>>rbg246+r8
Its quite an easy install, get yourself a narrow SMD tip and take it slowly. The only fiddly bit is soldering the sense wire onto the capacitor pad.

>>sgeren+ub
They are, but it's always a trade-off.

Stock paste goes for longevity and cooling, so it's kinda crummy at both.

Thermal pads go for longevity with a sacrifice to cooling.

High performance paste like arctic silver goes for cooling over longevity; but can be re-applied many times as it doesn't damage hardware.

Liquid metal like Thermal Grizzly's: conductonaught, goes for extreme cooling at the expense of hardware. (IE; it will literally eat your computer, slowly, over time).

>>hyperm+Ab
I'm in a similar jam. I currently use an X201 Tablet, I refuse to move to a newer ThinkPad as the build quality really begins to suffer, and I'll be relegated to a 16:9 display.

I'm waiting for an announcement about the Raspberry Pi CM4, if they offer a model with 8GB of RAM, I'm very tempted to look into designing a carrier board that can replace my ThinkPad's motherboard. It will need an active DSI to LVDS converter to drive the display, and a small microcontroller to act as an embedded controller to read keyboard scancodes, trackpoint input and talk to the battery.

>>angyro+3a
A group (person) going by "51nb" out of Shenzhen, PRC, produces limited runs of motherboards that fit old ThinkPad chassis and accept modern processors. They also have access to NOS chassis and occasionally offer models such as the "X210," a completely unofficial X201 with a FHD IPS and current gen i7.

>>sgeren+ub
far inferior is a pretty huge exaggeration, graphite pads are plainly good enough in the vast majority of cases, without all the annoying downsides of paste.

>>i_am_p+aj
Interesting! Do you mind sharing some URLs?

>>hyperm+Ab
latitude e7470

afaik the last dell with a track point thingy (https://xkcd.com/243/).

gen 6 i7, 32gig ram, 1tb ssd, 14" fhd. dated but capable

fan is mostly idle with linux desktop work but constantly whirling under w10.

should be affordable in used condition...

>>rbg246+r8
Get yourself a cheap soldering iron with a fine tip, and practice making rows of tiny dots on a piece of cardboard first.

>>angyro+3a
It's nice that laptops are in a spot where you could get a nice one for $150. This year because of Covid, those prices have doubled because of the increase in demand for used laptops.

>>hyperm+Ab
I have a T480 I just upgraded with 32GB RAM; I highly recommend it. Not as light as the x220 and doesn't have the nice keyboard, but the price was right at ~$500. Came from a liquidator with a 512GB SSD + NVME mod already in place. Handles most things nicely; still have a desktop with a GPU for heavier rendering tasks.

>>openfu+(OP)
small nitpick, the x220 came out in mid/late 2011 and x230 in mid/late 2012, that's not 12 years ago.

And if you rightfully say "but 9 years is bad enough".. yes, but my x230 is only a little slower than my T460p and if I ignore the mobile Ryzens I don't see how a 2020 Lenovo T would be meaningfully better/faster than my 4 year old T460p.

>>openfu+(OP)
I have an old dell that runs linux fine. Before that I had another laptop that I installed linux on with no big issues. I've never had a laptop that wasn't useable with Linux.

>>bboygr+91
Off topic- but are _the_ BBoy Gravity?

>>simlev+fa
Lenovo just dropped the Thinkpad T14 and T14s with AMD variants a few days ago. The base model is way more expensive on the US locale of their site ($1500 vs. ~$1200 in France or ~$1000 in Taiwan), but the US variant also offers options/upgrades not available elsewhere (500-nit touchscreen display, 32GB RAM).

>>cpursl+Qk
Found these: https://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=128709

https://www.51nb.com

>>openfu+(OP)
There was a batch of Pinebook Pro computers that went out which was badly-QA'd and had issues with the display. You may have gotten one of those. I believe the issue was pretty localized, and if you get in touch with Pine64 they'll send you some replacement parts.

Disclaimer: I am a heavily biased Pinebook Pro user :)

>>richar+qx
Seems about right. They're kind of elusive, since they probably have some connection to the Lenovo line in the PRC but are operating very unofficially. Links to offerings show up on Thinkpad forums and the Thinkpad sub-reddit, perhaps also on the Face Book.

>>davidw+lv
I don't know, so probably not? Tell me more.

>>dijit+ue
> They are, but it's always a trade-off.

According to a Linus techtips video on Youtube the difference is not really measurable. So I kind of tend to think that a high quality thermal pad is just simply superior in every way. The only reason I didn't try it, is because I couldn't find any in stock.

>>bboygr+8I
LTT noted differences, but yes, they're not large:

https://youtu.be/YpphKzmDiJM?t=420

FWIW Steve Burke did an even more detailed burn down of these pads:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niAQs8dZohE

(LTT was later able to get -20C cooling with Liquid Metal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdTsra-uLBI )

>>openfu+(OP)
> really the only laptop people seem to be happy with is thinkpad x220 / x230 which came out 12 years ago.... This makes me sad.

I would pay for a motherboard replacement with an AMD mobile Ryzen CPU (renoir), like nb51 did with the X62

>>angyro+3a
I’ve had a T480 since summer 2018. It is the worst computer I have ever owned, less reliable and poorer build quality than a $250 Acer netbook from 2010. I had to install Windows because of an error to update one of several firmware issues that have arisen with this machine — this one relating to Thunderbolt without which it could not provide external output over any port but HDMI, and there only at 30 Hz for 4K. And I think the throttling issue is still not fixed. The ports on the board are extremely flimsy and I’m going to have to send my machine in to fix them a second time. At the very least they have massive issues in developing and deploying quality firmware.

>>orhmeh+QK
Posts like this make me anxious to step out of the MacBook Pro bubble even though I want to. Aside from the butterfly keyboard saga those devices have generally been built very well, whereas I read nothing but complaints about the Dell XPS / Lenovo T4XX / HP Spectre du jour. Ranges from flimsy build quality to poor screens to coil whine to rapidly degrading batteries.

>>jorvi+tN
In terms of build quality, Dell's Latitude business notebooks have been great for a very long time. I have one from 6-7 years ago that's still running strong.

I've also been really happy with my Razer Blade which I've used alongside a Macbook Pro for the last ~3 years.

>>angyro+3a
My work laptop is a T460S, and it has the worst build quality/reliability I've seen in the past 5 years. The case is definitely light duty, to the point where one of the batteries swelling deformed it. The battery swelling also causes intermittent disconnection of that battery and of the screen, which is frustrating on a laptop.

>>i_am_p+aj
That is really interesting. I have an ancient T61p from I think 2008 running Fedora, which works fine for basic stuff. I would love to upgrade it because it's built like the proverbial brick shithouse and has a great keyboard and a 4:3 display (which would also need to be updated). But it's probably impossible without more or less completely rebuilding the laptop.

>>orhmeh+QK
My issue with T480 is that a few tabs broke off when I opened the chasis to upgrade the RAM. And now the palmrest is cracked in two places. And the worst thing is that to replace the palm rest, I would have to literally unassemble the whole laptop.

>>omgwtf+LT
Sounds pretty annoying/awful. The S model is a little smaller/thinner and I think the T460 I have barely makes the cut with the chassis (it has a lot more plastic than I remember the T series having).

I think in most cases it's pretty easy to pry these things apart and swap the batteries out.

>>orhmeh+QK
That's really sad an unfortunate. My experiences have been great but have been slightly older machines that stood the test of time.

>>branon+Tz
I heard something like this and sent them an email but got an automated response to make a ticket somewhere which was frustrating after spending time writing an email. Kind of figured they didn't want feedback since they seem really busy right now. Figured I'd just leave them alone it's just 200$ anyway and I may be able to use it headless some day.

>>wink+Aq
Sorry for not fact checking I just repeated what someone said to me recently as I was debating this choice.

>>i_am_p+5F
There needn't be much of a connection to lenovo. It just uses a thinkpad chassis and the keyboard. It has its own EC which works with the thinkpad keyboard. It doesn't use the lenovo EC.

>>angyro+3a
I wish I could say this about my T460p. It’s mobo died right after the warranty expired.

A friend of mine runs an IT help desk team that manages a fleet of T series laptops and they have a lot of problems. You got a good one. It’s so unfortunate that these have a lot of problems, they are almost perfect.

>>openfu+(OP)
I run an Oryx Pro as my daily driver and am pretty happy with it -- it mostly sits on my desk though, and the fans are crazy loud, so I solved that by just... having another lighter laptop I carry around. The Oryx Pro was able to replace my old ITX-case desktop though so I'm thinking it's a win.

Thanks for your support to the cause -- I do agree with what others are saying though, seems like you can't go wrong with lenovo these days, but maybe give System76 a try with some of the cheaper models.

>>Abishe+ac
No I got it at the latter part of the covid drama (or you know the latter part of the first wave in Europe)

>>george+sd
As am I, maybe this can be a lockdown skill to learn

>>amiga-+Td
Thanks I might learn soldering during this lockdown

>>openfu+(OP)
Wanted usb-c and 1080p IPS screen - had a x270 (stolen) so now on a used t470s.

No Free bios but debian/ubuntu runs flawlessly. Go for a nvme drive and 12+gb ram and cheap - $600 with shipping and ram upgrade.

x220 died (motherboard), and have a x230 kicking around

>>bradst+2P
I can’t say enough good things about dell latitude. It’s to the point that they are all I use. You can get a great laptop for ~400 on eBay and when stuff breaks or wears out you can actually fix it yourself using spare parts that are easy to find