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1. piokoc+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-06-15 13:47:58
As a non American I am not getting this at all. In many US cities/towns sheriff is elected. In all other cases city mayor is elected. How it happens that all those mayors and sheriffs are still in the office if police brutality is such a big issue?

Does this mean that people just do not care, or there is only some minority who thinks that the police is too violent and the rest is ok with that?

replies(5): >>eganis+Q >>markst+T4 >>astura+S5 >>bpyne+Ze >>kthejo+Lp
2. eganis+Q[view] [source] 2020-06-15 13:53:53
>>piokoc+(OP)
Voter disenfranchisement and suppression is a pretty big problem here.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/poll-pr...

> Does this mean that people just do not care, or there is only some minority who thinks that the police is too violent and the rest is ok with that?

Yeah, basically. Especially that last part.

3. markst+T4[view] [source] 2020-06-15 14:16:13
>>piokoc+(OP)
Police unions have considerable influence to block reform even when the elected politicians support it: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapo...

The efforts to "defund police" would solve some of the same problems that police currently address through other means. This would weaken the influence of police unions. For example, spending more to treat drug addiction as a disease rather than paying police to address possession as a crime.

replies(1): >>whydoy+kb
4. astura+S5[view] [source] 2020-06-15 14:21:46
>>piokoc+(OP)
A Minneapolis City Councilman (who ran on a campaign of police reform) explains it pretty well here:

https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-pol...

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5. whydoy+kb[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-15 14:57:02
>>markst+T4
Instead of "defund", maybe a better word, then, is "reform", or "reorganize"? Or maybe define that it is "police unions" who should be defunded, not the entire bucket called "police"?

I am just curious at this choice of word that seems to be the clarion call, which means entirely different in the dictionary than what is being implied! :-/

replies(2): >>Wester+ed >>unethi+ug
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6. Wester+ed[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-15 15:09:01
>>whydoy+kb
No because the goal is to have public safety organizations that don't have any of the personnel, historical lineage or goals of the police. By poor analogy, the goal isn't to clone facebook its to make a twitter,Instagram,telegram,etc. Different orgs with different goals with different people ultimately focused on public safety.
replies(1): >>whydoy+AE1
7. bpyne+Ze[view] [source] 2020-06-15 15:18:38
>>piokoc+(OP)
I suggest looking for articles in major US publications starting with NPR's site. There's just too much to cover in a comment.

Just as a synopsis, systemic racism became a more subtle segregation. POC (People or Person of Color) were systematically made to appear more violent and criminal-like over time. Combine that notion with an idealized notion of the police as hero figures and you have a recipe for rationalizing violence against POC.

Mobile phone videos allowed us to see from the victim's perspective just how brutal police have become.

"How it happens that all those mayors and sheriffs are still in the office if police brutality is such a big issue?"

To this point, you need to understand about voting districts and how POC voting power has been diluted and prevented over decades.

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8. unethi+ug[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-15 15:24:44
>>whydoy+kb
Because "Divert police funds" isn't as catchy. Just like "Black Lives Matter" doesn't imply "other lives don't" - when it comes to shorthand political phrases in America, it's best to look at what the common usage is.

(BTW some people actually do want to eliminate the police)

"Defund the police" in the 'mainstream' such as there is one, means to reduce funding for law enforcement and shift that funding to public health, social workers, and community programs, in a way that reduces the scope of calls police will get, and reduce the number of calls police are required to respond to.

Police Unions are not publicly funded, so defunding them doesn't make sense. Renegotiating collective bargaining agreements with unions does. "Smash Police Unions" has a nice ring to it.

9. kthejo+Lp[view] [source] 2020-06-15 16:02:34
>>piokoc+(OP)
One answer is law enforcement is largely a bureaucracy of career civil servants, so they're not as subject to the whims of a mayor or elected officials.

On top of that they're a fairly politically active group, so they have an outsized influence on policies, including those that affect them.

But the biggest issue, as you note, is the sheer disparity in who interacts with the police at all.

From a 2015 Bureau of Justic Statistics report

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp15.pdf

Only about 10% of Americans had police-initiated, non-traffic stop contacts.

So 9 out of 10 Americans never see the police, much less have insight as to whether they're too violent.

Blacks 50% more likely than Whites to be subjected to a street stop by police.

Blacks 120% (!) more likely than Whites to be subjected to police force.

And, every single respondent who indicated they were Tasered by police felt it was "excessive" force.

So, yes, fundamentally this is a "rights of the minority" problem - and the minority in this case are younger, poorer, less politically connected, and therefore are underrepresented in discussions about police brutality, effective law enforcement, police training, and other policies which impact them.

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10. whydoy+AE1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-15 22:06:17
>>Wester+ed
So the new org should have all new personnel, new goals that do not overlap with those of the police ("serve and protect", from what I understand), yet focused on public safety.

I am now genuinely curious to know how this is to be achieved, and what safeguards/guarantees are to be encoded so the new org does not devolve into the existing police.

replies(1): >>Wester+zO1
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11. Wester+zO1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-15 23:21:12
>>whydoy+AE1
So lets take one example lets say you have a late night restaurant devoted to providing drivers who would possibly drive drunk a place to sober up and people who are homeless a hot breakfast. Let's call this place "Waffle House". How exactly would those people become police as currently constituted. How exactly would an organization dedicated to providing satisfying justice without prisons become the police as currently constituted? The police as currently created barely solve crimes(30% clear rates) and don't really appear to be interested in justice. You seem to think its hard to imagine an organization dedicated to public safety that's not like them. They're so bad at it I ask the other question how could an organization dedicated to public safety ever be like the police.
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