zlacker

>This is Ba Sing Se levels of delusion for some people.

A reference I never expected to see on HN.

It's insane, but then you realize that a significant portion of the US population _still_ only watches television news media and refuses to spend extra time looking at other sources, like Twitter.

>>spike0+(OP)
Neither you or the parent poster explained what "Ba Sing Se" is. I quickly discovered that it is a reference to a city in "The last Airbender" [0].

I don't want to watch three seasons of it just to understand the reference. A very obscure reference might deserve an explanation to make the remaining 99.9% of the readers able to understand what you mean.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar:_The_Last_Airbender#Ba_...

>>simone+i1
It's a city where the entire population lives in ignorance of a global 100-year war, due to corruption in the government (even king does not know).

https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Conspiracy_of_Ba_Sing_Se

>>spike0+(OP)
Why unexpected? The Last Airbender is as mainstream as NCIS today.

>>Kiro+92
In fairness, that happened for many quickly over the past month or two as it hit Netflix. A good deal of people still don't know much/anything about ATLA.

>>simone+i1
Not really very obscure. It's an incredibly popular show and I would be willing to bed that at minimum 50% of coworkers would understand the reference.

I don't think it's very difficult to use context to understand what's being said by the commenter.

>>MathCo+l4
> at minimum 50% of coworkers would understand the reference

Quick spot check in my company's Slack channel -- One person in our team of 12 knew what the reference met.

>>MathCo+l4
I never heard of it. Like, this forum today is the first time I heard that show exists or reference.

>>simone+i1
While I get your point, there are a myriad of things I don’t understand that get posted and commented on here. Usually if I don’t know something, then it’s a good chance to look it up and learn something new.

I think it’d be counter-productive if everyone who didn’t understand a reference or technical concept on here wrote a comment asking for a shortcut explanation rather than maybe five minutes Googling and maybe watching a quick YouTube video (in this case).

>>simone+i1
“There is no war in ba sing se” is the equivalent of the older phrase “we were never at war with Eurasia”. Which is now more obscure but likely better understood on HN.

OP is saying you’d need to be incredibly delusional to deny police are brutal and there’s a problem.

>>MathCo+l4
I have never heard of it either - I am from Germany and probably the wrong age group. Ask me for any Muppet Show references :)

>>Kiro+92
Not sure that helps much; I’ve never heard of NCIS.

Some people just don’t spend their time watching TV.

>>spike0+(OP)
So the absolute truth is on Twitter? How significant is the portion of uninformed Americans? If an American watches TV news and reads Twitter are they half informed? WTF is your point: blame others, hate others, downvoting to remove a disparaging opinion. Do you feel powerful? You might be the cop.

>>spike0+(OP)
Twitter as some source of truth, really?

>>simone+i1
Avatar: The Last Airbender is one of the greatest series ever made which also has the benefit that it can be understood by kids, so it's worth investing 3 seasons in anyway.

I guess I'm in favor of obscure references, I think even if I hadn't understood I would think that must mean something really delusional.

>>bnjms+r6
With all due respect, 1984 has a much higher cultural impact and awareness than ATLA. The show isn't that well known outside of current 20-30 year olds.

>>spike0+(OP)
> refuses to spend extra time looking at other sources, like Twitter.

I don't blame them, Twitter is it's own special hell and widely regarded as a bubble.

>>spike0+(OP)
Twitter!? That cesspool is full of bots and trolls.

>>aendru+Hb
That's fine but considering NCIS is the most watched TV show of 2019 I'm sure it holds as a reference for "mainstream".

Edit: I know downvote edits are frowned up but... I need to ask: why are people downvoting this? Do you not think NCIS is good example of a mainstream show?

>>Kiro+Jg
Is that for one show, or the entire franchise? There's three shows; the original (16 years old and still going, wow!), Los Angeles and New Orleans.

>>bilege+aj
https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/most-popular-tv-shows-highe...

Looks like the original show only (at #2, after NFL). New Orleans is at #22 and Los Angeles at #28.

>>dtech+8e
Frankly... among my generation of roughly 30 year olds, I'd expect Avatar the Last Airbender to have higher cultural impact than 1984 (which was written in 1949).

Most of us were forced to read 1984 and didn't really enjoy it. ATLA however, is something that we organically grew up with through high-school / college and actually paid attention to.

My group of friends would be aware of 1984 concepts... such as "Big Brother is Watching" (phrases / concepts which have escaped the book and become a thing of their own). But I don't think we'd recognize the phrase "At War with Eurasia".

Honestly, the only reason why I remember "At War with Eurasia" is because I was a quiz-bowl player and was forced to memorize key phrases from many books I barely read. Even if I did read 1984 in my high school classes, it never actually stuck with me.

>>camero+xf
Agreed, but it's not like cable TV isn't a bubble of its own.

>>dragon+el
Fun fact: as a kid in 8th grade or so, we were supposed to read and summarise a book for English class Most picked easy books, I picked 1984, probably out of a desire to be edgy. Little did I know that my level of English at the time was not enough for that book. The result is that, since I never went back and re-read the book, I kind of only half-read it because half of it I didn't really understand. :D I think I got the general idea of it though.

>>spike0+(OP)
Twitter is probably the worst medium for developing a balanced, well-educated view of anything. Americans don't need more fast-paced social media, they need quality education and journalism that covers all sides of these issues.

But of course that's not going to happen. For modern people with attention span of a goldfish it's too much of an effort to read long texts - thus they'll just keep watching the news, or reading short, one-sided tweets full of hate.

>>dtech+8e
> 1984 has a much higher cultural impact and awareness than ATLA

My anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise, but I’d love some real data - how are you measuring that?

>>Kiro+Jg
Due to the glut of content available today, viewership is fractured. It doesn't take much to be the "most watched TV show" any more, just like it doesn't actually take many sales to top the music charts. Something can hold a record for viewership while still being something that most of the population (or most of a subculture like us here) remain oblivious to.

Also, HN is a global community, and even though many television shows are watched internationally, their impact on pop culture overall can be drastically different. So, you can't assume a major show in your country will be readily recognized by your fellow nerds in another country.

>>Kiro+92
I’m not sure about the comparison to NCIS, but TLA is in the top ten on Netflix currently, it’s quite popular.

>>Shish2+Yq
Me too as my anecdotal evidence is completely opposite of you, neither myself or anyone I know would get a reference to ATLA, I vaguely know about it because of the anime being broadcasted in some channel.

These are all late 20s, early 30s people, Brazilians, Scandinavians, Germans, Dutch and so on, 1984 would immediately be known by most, quite a few have read it, none (even if they know about ATLA, what many don't) would get the reference.

Interesting I can cite a conversation I had not long ago with them to act as anecdotal data, I'm really interested to see what is the split here.

>>piva00+Zw
> I vaguely know about it because of the anime being broadcasted in some channel.

Since it was American made, that makes it a cartoon and not an anime.

>>dragon+el
Among your generation _where you live_ maybe.

1984 is a very popular and influential book.

I fairly confident that if you asked the authors of Avatar The Last Airbender they would tell you straight that they’d based that idea on 1984.

I’d be willing to bet people will be quoting 1984 long after ATLA has been forgotten.

>>Shish2+Yq
1984 was standard school reading in America for a very long time (maybe still is?). That’s definitely going to make it more well known than a cartoon.

>>Lio+8y
Either way, I'm able to connect with the root comment here about Ba Sing Se more readily than "We're at war with Eurasia".

The original two posters in this thread were also intimately familiar with Ba Sing Se / Avatar the Last Airbender. So multiple people here are fully aware of the reference and are in good communication.

I probably wouldn't reach for a reference to ATLA myself. But, apparently its popular enough that plenty of different posters in this very discussion are aware of it and able to explain to other people here the concept.

>>bryanr+1e
I will second this. Even at 27, it's one if my favorite shows, I've watched it all the way through multiple times. It has everything you could want, with the side benefit of being incredibly wholesome and having a wonderful message.

>>Lio+8y
Possibly routed through Babylon 5, where Earth and Mars were kept unaware of a galaxy-wide war that had been going for a couple years.

>>Kiro+92
Given that TV ratings and audiences are easy to discover, it's weird you'd make this easily disprovable assertion.

>>dragon+el
Either you're generalizing a bit too much or I'm weird as I'm mid 30's now, and I have definitely read 1984 but have never seen Avatar. In fact when I read "Avatar" I think of blue space aliens before I think of the anime.

>>spike0+(OP)
What is the value in going on Twitter and actively looking for information that confirms your bias? This is what most people, of all political inclinations, are doing.

>>dragon+el
The phrase is "we've always been at war with Eastasia", and it is known because it resumes the core theme of the book. 1984 was written in 1948. There's a reason why it is in the school curricula, but sadly to be forced to read a book obviously creates a bad predisposition. Good books that philosophically shed light on human nature are timeless.

>>Medite+7u
Even if that is true wouldn't you agree that NCIS is mainstream? If it's not mainstream I don't know what is. Feel free to give a better example.

Let me remind you that the whole discussion started by me highlighting the popularity of The Last Airbender (due to Netflix, as someone pointed out) by comparing it to a mainstream show. I could have taken any popular show but thought taking the one topping the charts would be enough to illustrate it. Apparently not, and in the future I must carefully review the viewing habits of the whole HN community in order to make a point and not offend anyone.

So let me revise the comment: The Last Airbender is as mainstream as any other popular show today.

>>dragon+2y
Anime can be made in other countries than Japan, it's a genre not an origin.

>>ubermo+QC
What do you mean? Is there a legal definition of "mainstream"? The Last Airbender is topping the charts on Netflix. That surely must be enough for me to be allowed to call it mainstream and that a reference to it is not obscure.

If you read the sibling comments they are trying to say NCIS is not mainstream at all since TV ratings mean nothing, making the opposite point of yours. You guys are impossible.

>>zaarn+eU
"Anime" as a word isn't even a genre. Its... incredibly ill-defined.

Actual genres would be "Shonen" (Dragonball Z, Full Metal Alchemist, My Hero Academia), "RomCom" (Ah My Goddess, SNAFU), "Magical Girl" (Sailor Moon, Pretty Cure), Mecha (Gundam), "Sci Fi" (Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in a Shell), "Mindfuck" (Evangeleon, Paprika, Paranoia Agent), or "Isekai" (Overlord, Sword Art, Slime)

And a few shows are blend between genres. Both Inuyasha and Kenshin are Shonen + RomCom blends for example. There are a few shows I can't pin down exactly (Little Witch Academia doesn't seem to follow any genre rules... too many action scenes / stress to be Iyashi. Not enough transformation scenes to be magical girls. Not cute enough to be a moe. Too much supernatural to be slice of life)

---------

Each genre of anime has its own art style, expectations, and writing style. Avatar would probably be a Shonen if I were to pin it to a specific genre (Child protagonist, action scenes aimed primarily at young male audiences... a "Shonen" or young male demographic). Avatar's artstyle is reminiscent of Shonen as well.

Paprika is definitely an "anime", but look at Paprika's art style: https://i.imgur.com/Sf0jtn0.png

Or "Night is short, Walk on Girl": https://i.imgur.com/Tz7w9bo.png

Both Paprika and "Night is short..." are anime and considered anime by the whole community. But stylistically, they are no where close to Avatar, DBZ, Full Metal Alchemist.

--------

The most consistent definition of anime is Japanese origin, or at least "Eastern" cartoons. "Anime-style" describes Avatar, Teen Titans, and RWBY. But its not really acceptable in the community to call those shows "anime". But I guess if we want to get technical about genres and definitions, "Anime" is a word that's too ill-defined to really be useful in these kinds of discussions.

>>Tainno+On
Here's a great summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIr_v3a5T-s

>>lazyjo+0I
It seems like you're suggesting mainstream news sources are somehow different? Personally I prefer the explicit bias of individuals on Twitter, than the implicit bias of mainstream news sources.

>>Sketch+iF
If you're in your mid 30s now you'd be in your early 20s when Avatar the Last Airbender originally aired. Since it's a children's show (Nickelodeon), you wouldn't have been in the target demographic, so I don't think that's unusual.

I'm your age and I never even heard of Avatar the Last Airbender. I'm sure my younger cousins know about it.

>>dragon+zX
I don't think you speak for the entire community. In the anime communities I frequent, it is perfectly acceptable to call ATLA an anime and nobody will bat an eye.

>>astura+af1
The claim was that "Frankly... among my generation of roughly 30 year olds, I'd expect Avatar the Last Airbender to have higher cultural impact than 1984 (which was written in 1949)." - if you and I would have been early 20's, that would have made that cohort late teens, so I still find the demographics weird.

>>keith_+cc
>refuses to spend extra time looking at other sources, like Twitter.

Twitter as another resource was an example. But yes, you can look on Twitter and find many different perspectives about a topic. I would think someone who knows how to spend some time understanding multiple perspectives of an issue knows how to look in many different places for them.

As far as the rest of your comment, I think you're going way off-base here. Sorry.

>>smaddo+Yc1
Mainstream media's bias is no more implicit than that of many individuals on Twitter (e.g. celebrities) and at least my time is better spent reading about a subject on selected media that span a wide political spectrum. But there is a risk: you might get the impression that mainstream media reporting is disturbingly inaccurate, on all sides.

>>Kiro+ZV
It's a question of scale. Many more people watch NCIS.