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1. alkibi+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-06-11 06:05:28
and not a single shred of evidence it was racially motivated rather than an accident having to do with the fact that her boyfriend shot a police officer
replies(5): >>bilbo0+G1 >>tomnip+n3 >>acalla+Qe >>lm2846+6l >>satyrn+jv
2. bilbo0+G1[view] [source] 2020-06-11 06:23:06
>>alkibi+(OP)
Just, Devil's Advocate, but do you think the accident could have been the police kicking in the door of the wrong apartment? The boyfriend shooting at the police does not seem accidental, nor does it seem in any way wrong to my mind. If the officers had kicked in the door of the right apartment, the boyfriend would not have tried to take the officers out. Again, a completely appropriate and well reasoned response in my own opinion.

If you enter private property forcibly, you should expect to be shot at. If you shoot back while having forcibly gained illegal entry to private property, you've committed a crime. It seems fairly open and shut to me. The only hold up is police and court system corruption along with a healthy dose of good old fashioned racism. Again, just my opinion.

replies(2): >>Kiro+29 >>alkibi+o21
3. tomnip+n3[view] [source] 2020-06-11 06:44:48
>>alkibi+(OP)
There is no world where the preventing the destruction of evidence is greater than the cost of life and bodily harm that's resulted from this practice. The zeal for a conviction seems to have taken priority over human life.

Originally circumstances were rare - 3,000 no-knock raids in 1981, increasing 50,000 in 2015. That's ridiculous.

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4. Kiro+29[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 07:47:14
>>bilbo0+G1
> If you enter private property forcibly, you should expect to be shot at.

For someone outside the US this is such a crazy statement.

replies(1): >>fiblye+Ja
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5. fiblye+Ja[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 08:03:21
>>Kiro+29
If the point of contention guns specifically, or people defending their homes to the point of killing someone?

America has more than just a few home invasions and murders. If someone is trying to break into your home, especially at night, there's a high chance that that person is not only willing to maim or kill you, but planning to do so. America has around 1 million home invasions per year and help isn't always nearby. Waiting can easily result in the victim being killed.

The man who shot at police here was worried that someone would end up killing him or his girlfriend. Unfortunately, he was right.

replies(1): >>gridlo+Ih
6. acalla+Qe[view] [source] 2020-06-11 08:45:50
>>alkibi+(OP)
If you don't like people defending themselves against plain clothed intruders with guns they legally bought, then maybe you need to revoke the 2A.

Most cops don't need guns. Almost no normal civilians need guns. The entire developed world that's not the USA gets by just fine without the 'right' to own a semi-automatic machine gun.

replies(2): >>082349+pg >>trfhuh+yW
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7. 082349+pg[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 09:02:28
>>acalla+Qe
The tech debt is so legacy in those amendments that it predates SCCS. See the git blame for "three-fifths", or ponder the fate of the "Equal Rights Amendment".

Note: Where I live, most young men, and some young women, have assault rifles at home. Cops still don't kill people. (might savoir-vivre have something to do with this juxtaposition?)

(speaking of refactoring tech debt, the Duke of Wellington was one of the signatories to an international treaty which may have helped inspire the "Monroe Doctrine". [flagged] discussion at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23359754 )

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8. gridlo+Ih[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 09:14:25
>>fiblye+Ja
It's a matter of culture. This is how the average European imagines an encounter with a criminal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woO1Cs6c-oo

replies(1): >>trfhuh+DX
9. lm2846+6l[view] [source] 2020-06-11 09:46:58
>>alkibi+(OP)
Does it matter though ?

The job of the justice system, and the police, is to keep non criminal people safe, all of them, even if it means not being able to catch a few criminals here and there. It's obviously not the case in the US though, just looking at wrongly convicted people gives you a good idea of what the US system is about [0]. This kind of shit should never ever happen, it's the very basis of any serious justice system.

Also, this is exactly why countries like France have laws preventing police interventions between 9pm and 6am (it obviously has exceptions, but even then they need a special authorisation). You don't storm people houses in the middle of the night and start shooting when the confused people you just woke up start panicking... seems like common sense to me

As far as I can tell you're legally allowed to own a gun and use it to defend yourself against intruders, you can't use this as a valid argument in that case. The only shocking thing here are the police tactics, not the fact that this dude defended himself.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_miscarriage_of_justice...

10. satyrn+jv[view] [source] 2020-06-11 11:17:08
>>alkibi+(OP)
The issue is the no knock warrant, which are disproportionately used against black people.
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11. trfhuh+yW[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 14:29:34
>>acalla+Qe
Without 2A, people like Breonna would have to rely on gentlemen like those that visited her apartment to defend themselves. For some reason I'm skeptical about this idea. Abolishing 2A would greatly increase safety for the rich, who will get to keep guns and armed guards regardless of any laws, and correspondingly reduce safety for the poor.
replies(1): >>acalla+u5e
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12. trfhuh+DX[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 14:35:09
>>gridlo+Ih
I see that even criminals in Europe have manners. Until we figure how to replace domestic criminals with European ones, I'd prefer to keep 2A.
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13. alkibi+o21[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 15:03:52
>>bilbo0+G1
i agree with what you said. the entire ordeal was an accident on both sides but my question remained. is there a shred of evidence it was racially motivated since it’s getting lumped in with BLM
replies(2): >>bilbo0+831 >>wan23+8o1
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14. bilbo0+831[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 15:08:48
>>alkibi+o21
That's not what I said. The responsibility for the entire ordeal falls squarely, and solely, on the police. It was not "on both sides". It is not an accident, nor in any way inappropriate, for a man to defend his woman from illegal armed intruders. So the boyfriend made no mistakes at all, and committed no crimes.

You seem to be attempting to put forth a narrative that the boyfriend somehow made a mistake. Probably in some misguided attempt to support the police in this incident. But you're not helping the cause of LEO's right now. You're actually doing enormous harm to it. When you make mistakes you admit it, you hold people accountable, and then you fix the issues that lead to the mistake. That inspires confidence. The response of you and the Louisville PD and court system inspires not only lack of trust and lack of confidence, but also widespread animosity.

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15. wan23+8o1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 17:13:25
>>alkibi+o21
This incident is actually so much worse than the George Floyd incident in my mind. The police force as an institution decided that it would be okay to bust down the door of the home without identification and with guns drawn, knowing that in such an operation it is very possible that someone could get seriously hurt. In the end, it basically comes down to the law enforcement institution deciding that the lives and safety of the occupants of the home just don't matter that much.
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16. acalla+u5e[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-16 14:52:31
>>trfhuh+yW
This is madness, no other developed country do you need a gun to feel safe. Safety, or lack thereof, is a problem with policing. If more guns solved this problem, i think the USA would be the safest country in the world, but it's most clearly not. 2A is for 'well regulated militia', it was not written for just everyone to own assualt rifles.
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