zlacker

We certainly need a police force to maintain a level of civilization in a large enough society.

But of course, the problem is different: what KIND of policing we need, and how do we provide accountability. Quis custodiet custodes? [0]

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%...

edit: note that the "ipsos" part of the sentence in the wikipedia link is correct, but can be largely omitted. I studied Latin at school (loved it) and this happens frequently with Latin quotations.

>>simone+(OP)
I'm a little bit confused by your statement that the ipsos is both a correct quotation but can also be omitted. Is there some translation issue wherein the "ipsos" might or might not be part of the original poem?

>>IggleS+mi
As I understand, it is part of the original Juvenal quotation, but its omission does not substantially change the meaning of the sentnce.

Compare

> Who will guard the guards themselves?

with

> Who will guard the guards?

>>IggleS+mi
"Quis custodiet custodes" means "Who will watch (the) watchers?" With the "ipsos" - "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes", it means "Who will watch the watchers themselves?" - i.e. it puts emphasis on "the watchers". Basic meaning for both is the same, but I think the original version used "ipsos"