zlacker

But hopefully you care about one much, much more than the other. They are not comparable in terms of needing discussion at this moment in history.

(Edit: In the event that you honestly don't know which one is the more important topic, right now or pretty much any other time - police frequently murdering black people or some store windows getting smashed and merch stolen - it's the police murdering black people.)

>>jaas+(OP)
I can't actually tell which one you're trying to say is more important right now. The case for "riots are the bigger problem right now" being that there is a whole lot more rioting and looting happening right now than there usually is, whereas the amount of police violence is currently significantly below the typical level (as a result of the coronavirus and everyone staying inside, but still).

>>Anthon+q1
We gotta make up lost time for when we made the mistake of thinking kneeling at football games was enough :)

>>Anthon+q1
11,000 claims of abuse in the last 3 days just in seattle is low?

>>silver+73
You can't retroactively justify a riot based on police conflicts with rioters. It violates causality.

>>Anthon+m5
But as the article says - why were there riots at all? Because the cops were firing on peaceful protesters!

Evidence abounds.

They committed police brutality, at the protests against police brutality. It genuinely boggles the mind.

>>komali+U6
The premise "many assholes are cops" doesn't need a lot of new evidence. There is more than enough existing evidence.

But what do you honestly expect riots to lead to? Concessions? Or loss of the moral high ground and even more riot gear and tear gas and escalation?

It's just handing the cops a free pass to justify arresting you. And not just arresting you, but charging you with something that could actually stick. Its hard to advocate policy when you're serving a decade in prison for arson and conspiracy.

>>Anthon+b8
The bail funds have tens of millions now.

>>silver+S9
Bail doesn't help after you're convicted.

>>Anthon+m5
I’m not so sure you can pin causality here. Anecdotally, the protests I’ve visited in the past have always been exactly as violent as the police initiates. A peaceful police usually means a peaceful protest in my experience. A violent police—on the other hand—can sometimes cause a violent protest, and even a riot.

Crowd control is a science. And you are sort of ignoring the science by claiming that rioters are the cause of the conflict.

>>runarb+Df
> Anecdotally, the protests I’ve visited in the past have always been exactly as violent as the police initiates.

Things escalate when someone escalates them. Sometimes that's the police. Sometimes it isn't. And even when it is, you still have to be willing to be provoked. Don't.

We have people in this thread justifying riots as "we tried kneeling at football games" as if there is some kind of reasonable progression from there to looting and burning down churches.

>>Anthon+Ap
Like I said, crowd control is a science. Even if you have violent actors at the protest, it is still a failure of crowd control if the whole protest turns violent.

Reacting when violated is a natural reaction. With a group this big you cannot think in individual terms. If provoked there and there is a non-zero chance you’ll see a reaction, you will see a reaction. And now you have a positive feedback loop between the police and protestors that may escalate into riots.

>>jaas+(OP)
Riots have a history of escalating (often by someone with an agenda), my family and town was worried last night that they would come here (several arrests were made), and do real harm. That is they might be less now but from store windows to killing people is not that big a stretch.

I'm not convinced the rioters care about police violence either. From what I ca see the riots are outside groups with riot and anarchy as an agenda. My right wing friends are blaming George Soros, my left wing friends some nameless white supremacist group. I have no idea what the truth is, and don't expect to find out for months if ever.