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[parent] [thread] 24 comments
1. monoca+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-05-29 14:55:43
> How is it legal for a police offer to arrest someone without any warning, without even telling them why they're being arrested, and without probable cause?

Cops can hold you for some amount of time, generally around 24 hours without cause.

> What are the repercussions for these officers for falsely arresting people?

None

> Do they suffer any consequences, or do they suffer no punishment for this injustice?

No punishment.

replies(4): >>JSavag+w >>voxic1+42 >>pionar+55 >>antonc+Y7
2. JSavag+w[view] [source] 2020-05-29 14:58:01
>>monoca+(OP)
That's horrifying. Why don't we change the law?
replies(5): >>camgun+81 >>monoca+o1 >>mcherm+sb >>ATsch+Ee >>bityar+br
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3. camgun+81[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 15:00:49
>>JSavag+w
Courts are normally extremely deferential to law enforcement. Coupled with the fact that increasing oversight or increasing restrictions on law enforcement leads to a barrage of "soft on crime" political attack ads, and you get what we have today.
replies(1): >>Anthon+fB
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4. monoca+o1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 15:02:01
>>JSavag+w
Because we have decades of it being political suicide to not be "tough on crime".

Obviously cops only act in good faith, so any restrictions on them are restrictions on getting criminals off the street. </s>

5. voxic1+42[view] [source] 2020-05-29 15:05:08
>>monoca+(OP)
Note also that 24 hours usually doesn't include Sundays and holidays, often Saturdays are excluded as well. Meaning if you get arrested before a long weekend it could be 4 days before anyone legally has to consider releasing or charging you.
replies(1): >>kindat+C8
6. pionar+55[view] [source] 2020-05-29 15:19:07
>>monoca+(OP)
> Cops can hold you for some amount of time, generally around 24 hours without cause.

This is simply not true. Police may not keep you detained if they do not have probable cause or reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime. However, in real life, they do this sometimes, even though it's been ruled unconstitutional.

They do occasionally face repercussions. Thousands of civil rights lawsuits are settled quietly around the country every year, and some go to court and establish precedents, such as Turner v. Driver.

They don't suffer consequences enough, though, and depend on citizens not knowing that what the police are doing is wrong. It's also difficult due to the "thin blue line" BS where cops are elevated above the rest of society.

replies(3): >>kindat+r6 >>monoca+78 >>mdpope+wf
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7. kindat+r6[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 15:24:04
>>pionar+55
They also depend on citizens not having the financial or time resources to sue.
8. antonc+Y7[view] [source] 2020-05-29 15:30:43
>>monoca+(OP)
> Cops can hold you for some amount of time, generally around 24 hours without cause.

This isn't totally true, at least not for the casual use of "cause". Cops must have "reasonable suspicion"[1][2] to detain, during that detainment they can discover more information which creates "probable cause", and probable cause allows them to arrest.

My guess is they were arrested for what is commonly called "resisting arrest"[3]. The way resisting arrest laws are unfortunately written, obstructing an officer in their duty is enough, they don't have to actually be resisting arrest. Basically of the cops told the CNN crew to get off the street, and the crew didn't, that would be "resisting arrest".

Minnesota's law:

> obstructs, resists, or interferes with a peace officer while the officer is engaged in the performance of official duties

Note that they were arrested, you can hear an officer say they are under arrest, but they haven't been charged or convicted. I doubt they will be charged. It is up to the county district attorney to press charges (the same DA who isn't pressing charges against the officer who killed George Floyd).

The press in the US are usually given a lot of freedom, and are allowed to be in places that the police don't allow regular citizens (riots areas, wildfire areas, etc.).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion

[2] https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-reasonable-susp...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resisting_arrest

replies(1): >>heracl+H8
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9. monoca+78[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 15:31:13
>>pionar+55
> This is simply not true. Police may not keep you detained if they do not have probable cause or reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime. However, in real life, they do this sometimes, even though it's been ruled unconstitutional.

They don't have to charge you, so they don't have to prove it.

> They don't suffer consequences enough, though, and depend on citizens not knowing that what the police are doing is wrong. It's also difficult due to the "thin blue line" BS where cops are elevated above the rest of society.

The police themselves hardly ever face consequences; the settlements come from the taxpayer.

replies(2): >>pionar+U8 >>umurko+sf
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10. kindat+C8[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 15:33:33
>>voxic1+42
And then sometimes they forget that you're there

"Daniel Chong Drank Urine To Survive 5 Days In Holding Cell Without Food, Water"

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/daniel-chong-dea-urine-cell-5...

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11. heracl+H8[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 15:33:56
>>antonc+Y7
In this case, in the video, Jimenez asks the police whether they'd like him to move somewhere else, they don't respond, and then they arrest him, so it is quite hard to justify the claim that they were resisting arrest even on that definition.
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12. pionar+U8[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 15:34:51
>>monoca+78
They actually do have to articulate their PC. If they don't, again, you can sue for civil rights violations. Not saying it doesn't happen, it does, but it's not correct to say they're "allowed to".
replies(1): >>monoca+La
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13. monoca+La[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 15:41:35
>>pionar+U8
They have 24 hours to articulate that or let you go.
replies(1): >>pas+4K
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14. mcherm+sb[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 15:44:25
>>JSavag+w
Consider how one goes about changing a law. Generally it starts with citizens making a fuss to inform their elected representatives that they think the existing laws need to be changed.

Recently, in Minnesota, hundreds of people gathered in a protest on precisely this topic. They gathered to say (for their elected representatives and everyone else to hear) that they wanted a change to the laws and the system that permits police officers to kill people by kneeling on their neck when attempting to arrest them.

It was during this very protest that the CNN reporters were arrested.

So, as you can see, people are trying to solve that problem. They have been protesting loudly about it for the past decade (much longer, in truth, but there has been a renewed focus by the media within the past decade). And so far... well, you tell me whether you think it's working.

replies(1): >>JSavag+Rk4
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15. ATsch+Ee[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 15:58:17
>>JSavag+w
Nobody has rioted hard enough so far and most of the victims of this law are not white.
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16. umurko+sf[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 16:00:49
>>monoca+78
Burden of proof is different for detaining, arrest and when in court if one is charged.

They have to have PC to arrest someone. Even if you're not charged, PC has to be there for an arrest to be justified.

replies(1): >>Drip33+yx
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17. mdpope+wf[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 16:00:53
>>pionar+55
> Police may not keep you detained if they do not have probable cause...

I believe this is called a distinction without difference. The police can always say you behaved suspiciously or they felt threatened by you. You can also be found guilty of resisting arrest, even if there was no reason for the arrest except that you were resisting it.

replies(1): >>Lendal+Ci
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18. Lendal+Ci[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 16:12:25
>>mdpope+wf
And cops know this and will verbally threaten you with it. I've had it happen to me. The cop actually said to me during a traffic stop he could arrest me for resisting arrest. I don't know why he said that. I guess I was not showing sufficient gratitude for the ticket he was writing me. I was being respectful, even though I knew of no law requiring me to be respectful to cops. That was over 20 years ago. It's nothing new.
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19. bityar+br[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 16:48:38
>>JSavag+w
Laws that give the police _less_ power are generally written in blood. Meaning, there has to be a pattern of clear and obvious abuse for any change to happen. For instance, the now near-ubiqitous police body cams are a result of multiple well-publicized unprovoked beatings and murders.

The reason for this is that no politician is going to willingly step up for more police oversight and restricted powers, for at least a couple of reasons:

1) They will be painted by their opponents as "weak on crime" or even "supporting criminals" at election time.

2) They risk losing votes from emergency services workers, which are quite a large demographic in local elections.

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20. Drip33+yx[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 17:17:51
>>umurko+sf
They can detain you briefly for something as simple as wearing jeans if someone committed a crime while wearing jeans but typically this is only for a handful of minutes. These reporters were fully arrested which is a different standard as you've written already.
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21. Anthon+fB[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 17:34:02
>>camgun+81
The "soft on crime thing" was a lot more effective in the 90s when there was a lot more actual crime and so people were more afraid of it.

At this point I'm basically waiting for a politician to adopt "soft on crime" as a campaign slogan and rebrand it as a rehabilitation program where you turn drug dealers into docile flower shop owners as opposed to opponents who "make crime tough" by sending people to "crime school" prisons and turning them into hardened career criminals with switchblades and facial tattoos.

The real problem is the same as it is in general -- special interest groups (in this case police and prison guard unions and private prison companies) are the ones who spend the most effort lobbying on the issue. It also doesn't help at all when we disenfranchise "convicts" because we're then disenfranchising the victims of the system whenever it makes a mistake (which is often).

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22. pas+4K[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 18:11:26
>>monoca+La
They still have to explain why you have been detained, right?
replies(2): >>monoca+BL >>thejyn+jS
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23. monoca+BL[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 18:19:01
>>pas+4K
No
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24. thejyn+jS[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-29 18:51:51
>>pas+4K
From my experience having been arrested and held like this before: No. They don't even have to attest to probable cause until the 24-hr limit hits, in which case they will then formally arrest you by taking you to be fingerprinted, a reading of Miranda, etc along with paperwork containing the attestation of probable cause, or let you go, again, with a pile of paperwork, and sometimes both, in which case they arrest you formally, give you paperwork, and an issued summons to appear in court before sending you on your way.
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25. JSavag+Rk4[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-31 04:56:06
>>mcherm+sb
Seems like our political system is broken then.

If the public so adamantly wants laws that elected representatives refuse to pass, then it seems that enabling direct democracy would be one solution to getting these laws passed.

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