zlacker

Previous discussion concerning this, which includes replies from Cloudflare: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19828317

>>amarsh+(OP)
The author of the post specifically addresses these replies from Cloudflare.

>>amarsh+(OP)
> We are working with the small number of networks with a higher network/ISP density than Cloudflare (e.g., Netflix, Facebook, Google/YouTube) to come up with an EDNS IP Subnet alternative that gets them the information they need for geolocation targeting without risking user privacy and security. Those conversations have been productive and are ongoing. If archive.is has suggestions along these lines, we’d be happy to consider them.

I actually forgot to consider this angle, as the discussion was centred at archive.is. I'd imagine 1.1.1.1 has a very negative consequences for Netflix local caches, for example. This is where your local homegrown provider gets to save significant $$$$ due to interconnect/bandwidth costs by hosting a local Netflix cache through their appliance, and you get to benefit by the latest shows being locally cached, delivered at maximum speeds, instead of being hailed through the whole internet each time for each device.

If you're using 1.1.1.1, you're basically not only making sure that your internet will be much slower due to suboptimal CDN performance by any CDN other than Cloudflare CDN, but that you're also going to needlessly be running extra simultaneous streams of your favourite shows instead of fetching a local copy from your own ISP, increasing the cost of bandwidth transit to your ISP.

And, remember, you don't actually get any extra privacy by bypassing ECS in the first place, because your exact full IP address will have to be used to establish any subsequent TCP or UDP connections to make those requests for actual content in any case. You're basically breaking the whole internet by using 1.1.1.1, all for no real benefit! It's worse than we initially thought!

>>cnst+2c
> I'd imagine 1.1.1.1 has a very negative consequences for Netflix local caches, for example.

Is it possible for Netflix to use anycast?

For their appliances they can advertise to an ISP's routers via (i/e)BGP or OSPF / IS-IS to keep traffic internal, but have a fallback of having a presence in various IXPs.

Isn't this how Cloudflare works, anycast?

>>throw0+So
Yes Netflix is anycasted at the edge. Has been for years.

>>cnst+2c
> I'd imagine 1.1.1.1 has a very negative consequences for Netflix local caches, for example.

DNS isn't the only way to handle that. If it becomes and issue for Netflix, they can use another way to handle this situation and it will works just fine.

>>cnst+2c
> This is where your local homegrown provider gets to save significant $$$$

You've got it wrong. Netflix saves significant $$$ by not paying the provider for unthrottled transit. Your mental model is not how it works in practice these days.

>>Ghetto+lJ
Just because a given CDN uses anycast doesn't mean that they don't also use ECS as well. In fact, Cloudflare CEO's own wording seems to suggest that all of these mentioned providers still need ECS even though they do run anycast.

Basically, it would seem that Cloudflare is trying to close the performance gap by artificially limiting the performance potential of alternative CDN providers to match their own levels.