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[parent] [thread] 31 comments
1. whatsh+(OP)[view] [source] 2019-07-16 14:23:56
Google works like crazy to hire all of the smartest and the best people, but do they really need them? Billions and billions in shareholder value could be extracted by hiring a bunch of mid-tier Java programmers and having them farm Ad Words for the next decade, until the first competition shows up.
replies(7): >>ulfw+t >>wasted+u >>colive+P6 >>majani+39 >>0815te+Sa >>akhilc+7n >>paxys+DL
2. ulfw+t[view] [source] 2019-07-16 14:26:20
>>whatsh+(OP)
Many great people are hired not necessarily to move Google forward, but so that they don’t move a Google-competitor forward.
replies(2): >>dmurdo+B1 >>justag+dc
3. wasted+u[view] [source] 2019-07-16 14:26:23
>>whatsh+(OP)
> until the first competition shows up

Their worry is that competition will be started by the people they've not hired and kept on the bench. I'd imagine a large amount of their top-level hiring is driven by taking minds off of the market, more than optimising their output.

replies(4): >>spamiz+I2 >>KirinD+55 >>jancsi+xl >>dmitry+Eu
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4. dmurdo+B1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:31:59
>>ulfw+t
This makes me think about something.

I don't work at a FAANG company, nor have I ever been to SV, nor do I know anyone who works at one of the many enormous tech companies around SV.

In the TV show Silicon Valley they have characters who sit around unassigned doing nothing at the Google-like company in the show. Does this actually happen? Are there people hired at these companies who just don't have a project? Its entirely feasible that Google could afford to do this just to create a dearth of engineers in the area.

replies(5): >>colone+W1 >>ulfw+h2 >>lallys+Y5 >>asark+k8 >>oldman+D8
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5. colone+W1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:34:07
>>dmurdo+B1
I seem to remember reading an article on "rest and vest" employees.

Here it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14943146

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6. ulfw+h2[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:36:38
>>dmurdo+B1
What happens is that some people work on projects that never see the light of day because they’re not fully thought through or fully staffed or really as important enough. But they can still spend years working on them.

The show is (by design) over the top. But there is a piece of truth in it. That’s why it’s funny for everyone who has been at these companies because everyone can see real-life resemblances.

Before someone downvotes me: I am implying that SOME people are like this. By no means the majority or god-forbid everyone. Resting till vesting is a real thing though.

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7. spamiz+I2[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:38:25
>>wasted+u
Microsoft used this strategy successfully for a while.
replies(1): >>brlewi+Q11
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8. KirinD+55[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:51:54
>>wasted+u
This couldn't ever work. Folks that smart want to do things that are real.
replies(3): >>wasted+76 >>gizmo6+C6 >>asdff+rq
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9. lallys+Y5[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:58:11
>>dmurdo+B1
The number of PhDs writing basic JavaScript was astounding.
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10. wasted+76[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:58:48
>>KirinD+55
It has worked, perhaps not for long, but outweighted sums of cash to play with a nice side project or work on an actual "at scale" thing whilst you vest some shares probably appeals to a lot more smart people than we might imagine.

Salaries are also deductible, so they get the talent in their pool, off the market, adding a small % of value, whilst also being able to offset taxes on record profits.

It's a pretty nice win-win for them.

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11. gizmo6+C6[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:01:19
>>KirinD+55
Real != profitable. Google can offer academic style oppurtunities at industry style salaries.

Eg. Fuchsia OS might have been started because Google saw a bussines oppurtunity in writing an open source capabilities OS. Or, it might have been started to keep smart OS engineers from leaving the company.

replies(1): >>KirinD+ta
12. colive+P6[view] [source] 2019-07-16 15:02:32
>>whatsh+(OP)
They're not hiring these people because they need them, but because they want to avoid other companies from hiring them and doing something big and disruptive.
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13. asark+k8[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:13:01
>>dmurdo+B1
I have, in the last year, twice been hired then found myself way under-utilized because the company wasn't really ready to do anything with me, or the thing they hired me for fell through, or whatever. A few years ago I was brought on to a mid-sized business software company as part of an acquisition, and in the short time before I ran away was used at maybe 1/8 capacity in the most anti-productivity low-wall-cubicle open-floorplan office I've ever experienced.

Organizational/planning/managerial waste of expensive developer time is real and huge. I'd be surprised if companies the size of Google didn't do similar things some of the time, and if their management's a little more clueful than average they might even make such light-weight or non-assignments official and highly visible to make them easier to account for.

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14. oldman+D8[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:14:25
>>dmurdo+B1
Google has been implicated in this in the past (though I disagree that fuschia is solely a retention program): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17569631
15. majani+39[view] [source] 2019-07-16 15:16:37
>>whatsh+(OP)
Google's stock price would drop sharply if they went into maintenance mode right now. One of the main reasons they command the crazy high valuation they do today is because they remain on the cutting edge of the latest technology, which demonstrates an ability to adapt to the ever changing winds in their sector.
replies(1): >>dlp211+sf
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16. KirinD+ta[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:24:30
>>gizmo6+C6
It seems fairly ridiculous to suggest that Fuchsia is not a real project. It wouldn't be the first OS Google has built.
replies(1): >>floren+Si
17. 0815te+Sa[view] [source] 2019-07-16 15:27:28
>>whatsh+(OP)
> by hiring a bunch of mid-tier Java programmers

Replace Java with Go (not much of a change, all things considered!) and that's exactly what Google seems to be doing. It's a big problem for them in the long run because it does mean accruing a mass of technical debt that will not necessarily be easy to get rid of. You'd expect "smart" folks in a tech-oriented enterprise to do better than that, especially if they're unutilized otherwise, but it can't be easy to do that sort of management at Google scale.

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18. justag+dc[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:36:05
>>ulfw+t
Woah, it must feel great to have so much money to do this kind of "defensive" hires!!
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19. dlp211+sf[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:57:24
>>majani+39
Google does not have a crazy high valuation. They trade at a forward PE of around 24 which is well within a normal valuation for a maturing growth company.
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20. floren+Si[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 16:23:15
>>KirinD+ta
What are the others? Android and ChromeOS are both built on the Linux kernel.
replies(2): >>gizmo6+Ql >>KirinD+6n
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21. jancsi+xl[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 16:40:44
>>wasted+u
Suppose Google hired person X to take their mind off the market.

How would person X discover this?

replies(1): >>asdff+7p
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22. gizmo6+Ql[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 16:43:17
>>floren+Si
Not just Linux, but ChromeOS is based on Gentoo Linux (originally Ubuntu); which is to say, much of the userspace stack was pre-exsting as well. The core of the operating system is the Chrome web browser, which was also a pre-exsting project, which a relatively clear business interest to Google (influence over the web platform).

Android has a bit of a better claim, as more of the userspace stack was written for it. It also wasn't started by Google (although they bought Android Inc. years before it was released publicly).

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23. KirinD+6n[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 16:52:32
>>floren+Si
They're entirely alternative binary arches with a bunch of patches.

The idea it's just a Linux flavor is sort of like saying iOS is "just a build of OSX". I.e., gross simplification.

24. akhilc+7n[view] [source] 2019-07-16 16:52:35
>>whatsh+(OP)
Do you not think that other companies hire all of the smartest and best people? Does Amazon, which runs N% of the worlds internet traffic not apply?
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25. asdff+7p[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 17:05:43
>>jancsi+xl
It would be obvious if you felt like your job at google was bullshit.
replies(1): >>xyzzyz+4x
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26. asdff+rq[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 17:12:31
>>KirinD+55
Some people are brilliant but just want to be financially comfortable enough to do the things they actually want to do. Ask some CS majors why they are trying to get into the field and a huge swath with frankly say it's because they can bust ass now and get six figures at 22 years old and coast the rest of their lives. Not exactly the reality, but that's what freshman CS majors are thinking about when they hand their resume to the google rep during the career fair.
replies(1): >>KirinD+y11
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27. dmitry+Eu[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 17:40:12
>>wasted+u
> I'd imagine a large amount of their top-level hiring is driven by taking minds off of the market, more than optimising their output.

Yes. There are entire teams full of such people.

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28. xyzzyz+4x[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 17:56:03
>>asdff+7p
Along with me, a good half of my friends at Google (not only on my team) felt exactly that.
replies(1): >>ddalex+Vx2
29. paxys+DL[view] [source] 2019-07-16 19:46:35
>>whatsh+(OP)
And what happens when the competition shows up? IBM, Oracle, VMWare, Cisco, RIM, ebay etc. were all where Google is now, and by the time they realized they couldn't compete any more it was too late. Google can only counter these threats by keeping the smartest people in the industry employed and happy.
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30. KirinD+y11[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 21:51:38
>>asdff+rq
Yeah, working at Google is not a great plan for "coasting" now or later.
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31. brlewi+Q11[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 21:54:05
>>spamiz+I2
With all the good Open Source stuff coming out of Microsoft lately, I think the people in charge of keeping them on the bench are slacking.
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32. ddalex+Vx2[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-17 14:52:22
>>xyzzyz+4x
So make it not bullshit. It may feel bullshit because it's bullshit or because the exec deciding your project had bad info and you have good info, or you have bad info and not getting the context...

go out there, talk to people, find if it's really bullshit, and if it is, change it. there are so many interesting problems to fix that nobody should have time to do bullshit jobs

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