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1. cmpb+(OP)[view] [source] 2018-08-17 05:40:16
I put an Echo Dot in my son’s room a couple months after he was born to play music/white noise for him to fall asleep easier and to make the mornings easier when getting him ready (so that, for instance, I can use it to ascertain news/weather/daily travel info). Over the past year and a half since I put it in his room, he has of course been developing rapidly in his cognitive abilities, and he’s finally at the point now where he can wake the device on his own. It’s been several months of trying to talk to it, mostly by mimicking the simpler commands that he hears me say.

It’s interesting to me that he has grown up speaking at the Echo and slowly learning how to communicate with it in much the same way that he is learning to communicate with other people. His communicative learning progress is definitely a lot slower with the Echo than with me, but that makes sense since he spends a lot more time with people than with the Echo. Even still, I was very impressed the other day when he woke the Echo (and then promptly told it to “stop”, which has been in his vocabulary for a while now).

I’m not sure there’s any real point to this outside of just an interesting (to me) anecdote. And I guess it’s probably time I take the Echo out of his room, or at least figure out how to lock it down, so he doesn’t get into anything age-inappropriate or buy 500 cans of tomato sauce or something.

Anybody else have any interesting experiences with their little ones learning to communicate with smart devices?

replies(7): >>plainO+N3 >>abeh+y5 >>caf+p7 >>xythum+Fk >>feocco+9z >>jbob20+dz >>beenBo+j21
2. plainO+N3[view] [source] 2018-08-17 06:45:11
>>cmpb+(OP)
I think your tale begs the question: How will your son's (or any other child's for that matter) notion of personal privacy be shaped by the use of technology from a very early age? I think we'll have to wait and see, as this will be highly interesting.
replies(3): >>cinque+c6 >>hrktb+Vf >>feocco+Uz
3. abeh+y5[view] [source] 2018-08-17 07:09:57
>>cmpb+(OP)
Last year my daughter was just learning to sound out words and write them, and was coming to me for help in spelling them to make little sentences. One day I was busy working, so I suggested she go ask alexa how to spell the words. An hour later she came back with a whole page story! After that, she'd go to alexa a few times a week to get help with spelling, and started exploring games and asking for other info.
replies(2): >>iforgo+kg >>Tyr42+NM
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4. cinque+c6[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 07:19:36
>>plainO+N3
Hasn't technology throughout the ages always reshaped notions of what people consider valuable and not valuable, with some people choosing to hold onto prior notions and others newer ones (possibly because they benefited more from such)?

To me the biggest issue is the relative one way economic (let us set aside the intangibles, because one cant feed themselves on such) proposition of these devices (upfront cost of "paying" [more like renting since its default locked in to a provider] for the device, and the free "work" people provide with their queries). Reminds me of the proposition of the collect your dna as a service companies.

I guess the incentives of everyone running an instance of sphinx, and sharing models/feedback error corrections continuously with each other in the background with the ubiquity of torrenting now and decreasing reliance on the Amazons in the middle isn't here yet.

5. caf+p7[view] [source] 2018-08-17 07:39:40
>>cmpb+(OP)
The first thing my son asked the Google Home was "Hey Google, are you friends with Siri?".

(It actually has a few answers for this)

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6. hrktb+Vf[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 09:47:03
>>plainO+N3
Fair question. I wonder if it might change much thought, depending on the frame of reference.

I think a lot of us grew up with siblings in the same room. Rooms didn’t lock. Parents not looking but knowing all too well what’s going on. Schools reporting on behavior by phone or by letter that as a kid you didn’t get to see.

I think for me the notion of ‘privacy’ was just being left alone with no one bothering me. It’s only as an adult that I have a clear perimeter where no one should be able to step in. In that regard having a lot of your doings leaked to parents might not be that impacting.

replies(2): >>harrym+Sq >>gumby+mu
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7. iforgo+kg[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 09:53:25
>>abeh+y5
This is a good example of how, when guided properly, this technology can obviously be of practical and positive use for children. Sure, if you still want to criticize you could say that the child should rather learn spelling with their parents/real humans, but hey... Get used to technology already.

Imo the biggest problem when introducing children to these devices is how to get them to understand that this is very different from an actual human. Even if you find proper wording that a 4yo would understand, these words are easily overwhelmed by the fact that you can talk to it like a normal person. It's already interesting to watch children slowly grasp the concept of (video) calls, but then taking the next step and understanding there isn't a person at the other end of the Alexa dot is yet another step, because if it isn't a human, what else is it?

replies(1): >>briand+8i
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8. briand+8i[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 10:22:14
>>iforgo+kg
My kids know “Siri” as simply a computer they can talk to. They think she’s basically a robot. Mine are 6, 5, 3. Since we use HomePods everywhere they interact with them really just like they would another UI but haven’t associated Siri with a person. It’s generally some variation of playing music or turning on HomeKit stuff. But they aren’t trying to have conversations. To them is just an iPad with no screen.
9. xythum+Fk[view] [source] 2018-08-17 10:56:52
>>cmpb+(OP)
My son learnt how to play music on Alexa and stop it with "Alexa, stop". Unfortunately he now stops it playing music that my wife and I want to listen to - or tells me "Daddy, stop" if I am talking and he wants to say something...
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10. harrym+Sq[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 12:16:01
>>hrktb+Vf
> In that regard having a lot of your doings leaked to parents might not be that impacting.

I disagree. It was super stressful/impactful to me as a child. Knowing my parents would be called for misbehavior at school put undue stress on me all day after getting “an orange ticket” or later, detention. I’d get punished at school then punished worse at home.

Once, in first or second grade, my uncle divulged some petty thing I said to him in passing to my parents leading to a sit down talk. I was uncomfortable and angry. This damaged my trust.

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11. gumby+mu[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 12:53:45
>>hrktb+Vf
...I think a lot of us grew up with siblings in the same room. Rooms didn’t lock.

Indeed, but those were your family members. You knew them well and there was context, for good or ill.

But in this case the device is a bunch of strangers. Perhaps no one stranger listening in, but everything being processed off site and added to the profile Amazon or Google is building about you.

replies(1): >>feocco+sA
12. feocco+9z[view] [source] 2018-08-17 13:37:24
>>cmpb+(OP)
I live with my 6 & 9 year old nephews. I set up a Google Home in their bedroom and some in the common area's. It's been very interesting to watch them use it.

The 6 year old's pronunciation is not perfect and I could see a lot of frustration when he was initially using it. The drive to use the device has driven him to take his time and really focus on pronunciation so he can play the song or video's that he likes.

They understand it's a computer. But we all tend to treat it as an assistant. A really touching moment was when he used the Home to call "Santa." After he finished that call and we walked away, I saw/listened in My Activity that he asked to call God.

13. jbob20+dz[view] [source] 2018-08-17 13:37:52
>>cmpb+(OP)
This is sad. You have relegated your child's cognitive development to a cheap electronic device. He's supposed to be communicating with you and learning how to communicate with people, not crappy electronics designed to gather your info to sell you stuff.
replies(2): >>cmpb+TP >>elboru+eR
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14. feocco+Uz[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 13:43:04
>>plainO+N3
I don't think this is a new development, privacy in voice assistants is the equivalent of your browser's search history. If anything, that made me more conscious of privacy than anything else.

Our kids know I can see anything they ask. As well as any time spent on devices. I don't see this as very different from my upbringing. And I haven't noticed any regression in trust.

replies(1): >>crafty+rQ
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15. feocco+sA[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 13:48:23
>>gumby+mu
The device is not a bunch of strangers. There's no humans listening to "your" conversation. Though they may be listening to anonymized clips. The activity stored is also your own to control.

I think such privacy concepts are too abstract for a child to be concerned about. You'd be hurting their view of technology and enforcing an idea of Big Brother if you were to teach them a voice assistant is a bunch of strangers listening to you.

replies(1): >>gumby+tS
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16. Tyr42+NM[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 15:32:03
>>abeh+y5
That's so much better than telling someone to look up a work in a dictionary to learn how to spell it.
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17. cmpb+TP[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 16:02:27
>>jbob20+dz
I appreciate the criticism, but I really don't feel that my child's cognitive development has been devalued in any way due to his occasionally being able to communicate with the Echo. The vast majority of his communication is with other people - which he loves participating in. I'll concede that these devices do probably attempt to sell us stuff, but up to this point, I have not seen anything from the Echo that I would consider nefarious or that seems like it might cause harm to my child's growth. In fact, my experience is that the Echo is basically harmless, especially compared to the behavioral problems that I've seen in children who watch TV or Youtube extensively (which I do not allow).
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18. crafty+rQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 16:07:54
>>feocco+Uz
That's not the same at all.

It is (was?) easy to control your browser's history. It is impossible to control what these devices send to google/amazon.

Your browser's search history only gets populated when you, well, search. These devices are collecting information 24/7, regardless if you are actively engaged with them.

replies(1): >>feocco+Ad8
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19. elboru+eR[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 16:13:32
>>jbob20+dz
So a child should never read a book? nor watch an educational video? Alexa and other assistants are just tools. Tools can be used against people, yes, but they also can be used to improve people's lives. This particular example doesn't mean that the parent will delegate all his parent duties to Alexa. Don't get me wrong, I think I get your point, but should I stop using knives just because they can be used in dangerous ways?
replies(1): >>beenBo+Gn1
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20. gumby+tS[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 16:21:13
>>feocco+sA
I think facebook+cabridge analytica et al, and google's collection of location data even when the user opts out (just to name two), shows that it really is a bunch of strangers listening to you.
21. beenBo+j21[view] [source] 2018-08-17 17:44:53
>>cmpb+(OP)
It's going to be interesting to see how kids partially raised by Alexa during these critical stages of rapid development end up in contrast to their peers taught by humans.

Some obvious predictions for Alexa Babies:

1. They will develop lifelong bonds with Alexa/Amazon.

2. They will have lower IQs than their exclusively-human-taught peers and (in more extreme cases) be considered intellectually and developmentally disabled.

3. The derogatory term "Alexa Baby" will come to define a generation who's parents failed them, ultimately leading to the redefinition of "child abuse" and "bad parenting".

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22. beenBo+Gn1[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 22:19:48
>>elboru+eR
A book provides multisensory learning through sight, touch sound and smell. Alexa being voice controlled provides only auditory stimulation and is going to be the least good tool for the job. http://faculty.ucr.edu/~aseitz/pubs/Shams_Seitz08.pdf
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23. feocco+Ad8[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-21 18:02:50
>>crafty+rQ
I don't think your last statement is accurate. While the device is "listening" for the trigger words, it's not storing information. It only collects information you call upon it for. You do need to actively engage. I have not seen evidence of otherwise.
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