zlacker

[parent] [thread] 26 comments
1. nomel+(OP)[view] [source] 2026-02-04 03:31:45
Working with a Chinese vendors is an adversarial first relationship, where 差不多 is deeeeep in the culture (and, from my experience, tends to survive trips across the ocean).

There are professional communication/training courses for working with Chinese vendors/colleagues that spell all of this out, because it's not some secret. It's just a very different culture, with high context communication (I'll let you read what the practical implications of that are elsewhere). Want to have your mind blown? Look up what it means when they say "yes", when you're explaining something.

Being a low context person, I have significant and severe communication problems when working with Chinese colleagues/vendors.

replies(6): >>throw3+f2 >>sampul+Bb >>myst+3h >>xandri+MY >>mlrtim+b01 >>weebul+K11
2. throw3+f2[view] [source] 2026-02-04 03:53:09
>>nomel+(OP)
chabuduo is basically fail fast, fail early with Chinese characteristics. Maybe because I was in a frat, but talking to Chinese salespeople seems very similar to talking to my frat brothers.

Personally, I never really had too many issues sourcing from China because I made sure I was always introduced to a reliable partner first.

And secondly, I told them when deciding on two options, choose the better quality option, regardless of price.

Basically, I didn't tell them to save us much money as possible if that made all the difference.

3. sampul+Bb[view] [source] 2026-02-04 05:30:25
>>nomel+(OP)
I did not find this to be the case, except with a few low quality vendors we ended up dropping.

It was mostly the same as anywhere else, you go talk to them in person, tour their facilities/processes, and see what else they've built.

I was warned strongly about IP theft and cost cutting, but didn't find that expectation quite met reality. It may have been that our products were mostly un-copyable, and we specified everything precisely, or were just lucky.

4. myst+3h[view] [source] 2026-02-04 06:21:11
>>nomel+(OP)
Googled that ‘yes’ thing. Not different from my experience in other parts of the world. ‘Yes’ means ‘yes, sir’ only in the army. What is your environment?
replies(3): >>Maxion+Qi >>bojan+uN >>nomel+sW2
◧◩
5. Maxion+Qi[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 06:38:42
>>myst+3h
As someone living in the Nordics my experience already with central Europeans and especially so Americans is that these cultures are already much more high context than the Nordics. I guess up here we're all borderline autistic?
replies(2): >>t0mas8+Vs >>4gotun+Ou
◧◩◪
6. t0mas8+Vs[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 08:06:46
>>Maxion+Qi
I've done business the other way around, Western Europe with Finland. I think it's just different context? There are unwritten customs and meanings in Finland as well, just different ones.

Even UK vs Netherlands is a significant difference in how things work in business deals and that's just a 45 min flight. Unspoken expectations are different on how the other side is supposed to behave.

◧◩◪
7. 4gotun+Ou[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 08:22:06
>>Maxion+Qi
I am entirely convinced that the entire country of Germany suffers from Asperger's.

Denmark is a bit better, maybe because they drink more ? Dunno.

replies(3): >>theodr+fC >>Schlag+NJ >>n4r9+HQ
◧◩◪◨
8. theodr+fC[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 09:20:08
>>4gotun+Ou
I have observed the same across a bunch of linguistically Germanic countries (DE, AT, CH, NL, DK, NO, haven't been to SE, didn't observe it in IS), and I thought of it as "cultural autism." Apparently "higher context" is the politically correct way to say it. Now I know!
replies(1): >>4gotun+711
◧◩◪◨
9. Schlag+NJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 10:16:54
>>4gotun+Ou
Germany answers the question, "What if autistic engineers got to have their own nation?"
◧◩
10. bojan+uN[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 10:46:33
>>myst+3h
> ‘Yes’ means ‘yes, sir’ only in the army.

Not really, if you get a "yes" in the Netherlands, Nordics, Germany or Poland it does mean, simply, yes.

The consequence of which is that actually getting a "yes" takes a lot of work.

I don't dare speak for other countries, no experience there.

replies(1): >>myst+a02
◧◩◪◨
11. n4r9+HQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 11:10:19
>>4gotun+Ou
As someone who's visited both countries a few times, Germany is more of a drinking culture. Wikipedia agrees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_c...
replies(1): >>4gotun+R01
12. xandri+MY[view] [source] 2026-02-04 12:09:00
>>nomel+(OP)
Can you share some resources/books/courses to learn more? I'm interested in exploring working with Chinese vendors and it would be nice to learn from someone else before jumping into it.
13. mlrtim+b01[view] [source] 2026-02-04 12:20:47
>>nomel+(OP)
>Look up what it means when they say "yes", when you're explaining something.

Is there a term for this? Because I see it in my personal life as well dealing with some low price manual labor that doesn't speak english.

Instructions often get lost in translation, the reply will be "yes" and it doesn't get done. I know they want to sound professional and confident, so saying no or asking questions is a "bad thing".

replies(1): >>pizzaf+AK1
◧◩◪◨⬒
14. 4gotun+R01[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 12:25:19
>>n4r9+HQ
As someone who has lived in both countries, the Danes drink much more in a social setting.

Maybe the overall consumption is higher in Germany, but in Denmark everyone is out drinking much more than in Germany.

replies(1): >>bluGil+oa1
◧◩◪◨⬒
15. 4gotun+711[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 12:26:55
>>theodr+fC
Danish and Norwegian are not linguistically Germanic. If anything, German has more old Norse influences. And dutch.. Well, dutch is the illegitimate child of england and germany.
replies(2): >>Arn_Th+X61 >>theodr+0I1
16. weebul+K11[view] [source] 2026-02-04 12:32:36
>>nomel+(OP)
Given that Mandarin has many forms of "yes", isn't the problem that all those forms map on to our singular "yes". For a native speaker "yeeeessss" means something very different to "yes", but they would use a different word.

Knowing which is being spoken or heard is going to be hard.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
17. Arn_Th+X61[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 13:09:22
>>4gotun+711
>Danish and Norwegian are not linguistically Germanic

Where do you get that notion? My education (and some googling to refresh my memory) has Norwegian, Swedish and Danish classed as "North Germanic" according to comparative linguistics. That is one subset of the West Germanic languages which most of northern Europe speaks.

replies(1): >>4gotun+ca1
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
18. 4gotun+ca1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 13:29:38
>>Arn_Th+X61
You are right, west germanic is what I had in mind. In my mind north germanic never made sense, but I guess I will leave that to the experts :)
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
19. bluGil+oa1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 13:31:06
>>4gotun+R01
In Germany people drink less - but those who drink really drink a lot. Averages don't tell the story.
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
20. theodr+0I1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 16:18:10
>>4gotun+711
Speaking as someone with an academic background in Germanic historical linguistics: this is thoroughly incorrect.
◧◩
21. pizzaf+AK1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 16:27:33
>>mlrtim+b01
Lying. It is called lying, deceit, or bearing false witness.

In my house I do not permit "yeah", or "okay". It is "yes" and anything else is interpreted as a 'no'.

Once you press someone to speak a "yes" as a solid commitment, for example to an understanding of an instruction. If this puts the person on the defensive then you are dealing with someone who is not interested in being held accountable.

Let your yes be yes.

replies(2): >>wredco+6N1 >>nomel+pV2
◧◩◪
22. wredco+6N1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 16:38:25
>>pizzaf+AK1
People are frequently held accountable for things they do not control. Children even more so.
◧◩◪
23. myst+a02[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 17:36:19
>>bojan+uN
I live in Germany. 'Ja' here means 'ich stimme zu' only when explicitly asked. That's why Germans stick 'Ja?' after every second sentence. Ja? In general, 'ja-a...' means 'I hear you', same as almost everywhere else. That has been my experience.
replies(1): >>nuance+rP2
◧◩◪◨
24. nuance+rP2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 21:23:26
>>myst+a02
The 'ja?' with a question mark means 'right?'. It just happens to be the same word as 'yes'. So no, not same as almost everywhere else.
replies(1): >>myst+SV2
◧◩◪
25. nomel+pV2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 21:55:09
>>pizzaf+AK1
This isn't fair, because it's misunderstanding the problem. It's not that they're lying, it's that, in their culture, the meaning of yes is something different, meaning "I hear you" rather than "I understand you". If they're not strong with english they might not have a grasp of this, so (in the case of Mandarin as primary language) you have to usually think of it as an empty "uh huh" type filler word, not a word with actual meaning.

The real problem I have is the "saving face" concept prevents them admitting they don't understand something. This is where the "high context" part comes in. You can't listen to what they say directly, you have to go off how they say it, and other context clues. This is what I have the biggest problem with. The only way to know if they actually understand something is test their understanding, like have them repeat/explain it back to you. From a low context/western perspective, this results in low verbal trust (because it technically is). I've wasted so many hours on taking something said at face value, that I just default to verifying everything that's said, and trying to be patient when I find out the truth. But, I am getting much better at reading the cues, so can usually spot when the (from my western/low context perspective) bullshit when it starts.

There are old stereotypes around this clash of meaning/culture, but it really is just that. If you're from their culture, and speak their language, there's no "bullshitting" or "lying". From what I've been told, it's incredibly clear when someone is saving face, and it's very clear what the response should be, to "help" them save face. Westerners are, literally, just blind to it all. It's an incompatible mindset and language/expression that requires a robust translation layer that needs to exist in one of the parties. I seem to be mostly incapable of high context communication, even in english, so I'm just as "at fault" in the two party role of communication.

◧◩◪◨⬒
26. myst+SV2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 21:57:41
>>nuance+rP2
And why do they say ‘right?’ every time? Because without it my ‘ja’ does not mean ‘yes, sir’, but rather ‘I hear you, go on’. So, same as everywhere else.
◧◩
27. nomel+sW2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-02-04 22:00:30
>>myst+3h
Hardware engineering, where an inappropriate yes can mean massive amounts of time and money wasted, making it a very low context environment, by necessity.
[go to top]