zlacker

Palantir does not work in a vacuum - it requires other technology, platforms and systems to operate and succeed - many of which are designed and maintained by the users of Hacker News.

Take a look at Palantir's trust center: https://palantir.safebase.us

Schellman did their audit and compliance - do they have blood on their hands?

How about AWS, GCP, Azure cloud resources used by Palantir - are they stained, too?

>>Detect+(OP)
You can’t minimize the damage Palantir is doing with simple whataboutism.

>>Detect+(OP)
Palantir is built explicitly for surveillance, in a way the other companies you listed are not. There is no comparison here. It's like saying the City of Minneapolis is complicit because they maintain the roads ICE is driving on.

>>Detect+(OP)
Certainly you must be aware that there are not just binary values of morality in life. The obvious answer is yes they are stained, as we all are through our participation in various systems, but with vastly varying amounts.

Is the manufacturer of the bomb responsible for when Israel drops it on a family home in Gaza? Yes. Is it the same responsibility as the general who gave the order? No. Is it the same as the pilot who followed the order? No.

Does that make it useless to hold people accountable? Of course not.

>>dawner+E1
It is in fact the contrary: I am trying to maximize it by pointing out how big tech platforms makes it possible.

>>Detect+(OP)
The ironworker making steel plates for tanks and ships has a hell of a lot less moral culpability than the engineer designing shells.

>>Detect+(OP)
> If you work in technology, you are part of this force, whether you like it or not.

Disappointing to see you downvoted. I agree with this partially, but only because I think it applies more broadly.

I work in tech (although not in Big Tech/Mag 7/FAANG/whatever they're called now), and I feel quite acutely that anyone in the field is culpable in part for the enabling the absolutely massive dump that the capital-adjacent class is taking on the world to have their power play fantasies play out.

To the extent that I've started apologising on behalf of the field/profession to non-technical folks when they complain about yet another dark pattern/"growth hack" designed to steal their attention and money.

>>Detect+(OP)
Yes, they all are. Profits and shareholders value trump anything else. So yes, they are accomplices in the destruction of American democracy.

>>clpwn+83
Respectfully, this is cheap cope. The bomb maker didn't know when he made the bomb, maybe. Now he knows, as do all the people turning the gears on this meat grinder, including a bunch of people here.

If you value your comfy life over the well being of others and the future of not only the country, but without an ounce of hyperbole, the human race, then keep your head down. If you don't, fuckin DO SOMETHING.

You know all those times you've said or heard others say "well if I was in Germany in the 30's...." well, guess what, games fuckin real now. So act like the person you want to be.

>>Detect+o3
No you literally went the what about route.

>>LargeW+52
Except that the owners of AWS (Amazon) GCP (Google) and Azure (Microsoft) are all defense contractors for the Department of War.

All of them work directly / indirectly with ICE.

>>Detect+(OP)
Yes, this is how market economy works. For every organization doing horrible things, literally everyone is a small number of payment-handshakes from it.

No, it doesn't mean that "mr gotcha"[1] argument is valid. You don't have to isolate yourself from society Kaczynski-style to either criticize society or to do something smaller (like choosing who you work for).

[1] https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/

>>LargeW+52
Not really. Palantir is data integration and analysis software that in some cases (like ICE) can be used for surveillance. There are also thousands of commercial clients who use Palantir for completely non surveillance workflows, as well as many other government teams who use Palantir for non surveillance things. This is all public information.

>>prapta+dc
Sure, but in that case your rage should be directed at ICE / the federal government. Not a third party software vendor.

>>basket+ue
The rage should be dependent on the contribution. You mention a third party software vendor who produces tools that aren't even "dual-use" with respect to the abuse by ICE, they are specifically tailored. That's not the same as, say, providing electricity to them.

>>prapta+cg
They are dual use. Palantir creates platforms (Foundry, Gotham) which are used by ICE but also thousands of other companies. Are you saying that just because ICE tailors these platforms to their workflows they’re not dual use? That feels akin to saying some super complicated excel workflow used by a company means excel is not dual use.

>>basket+ue
Palantir does a ton of customization and consulting for specific use cases. This isn't like Microsoft Excel being used to track uranium enrichment in Iran, it is a direct, explicit part of their business.

Even if you do nothing else of impact in your life, you can stop defending the bad guys.

>>foobie+1k
So because they show people how to use their software they’re evil?

>>Toucan+b8
>If you value your comfy life over the well being of others and the future of not only the country

For people who think borders are just lines, our country as geography doesn't even exist. It's just lines. For people who think that all people are the same, everywhere, and deserve to go where they please, our country as a people doesn't exist either.

So if that's your conception of a country, why should I care about it at all? It's just a random place I happened to be born, and its disloyalty to me outweighs any I might show it. I inherited a house jointly with the rest of you, and you keep letting squatters live here for free. Once they're here, you screech if anyone tries to evict them. If I complain about them punching holes in the drywall and shitting in the kitchen sink, you tell me I'm racist. Whatever else, you and I are incompatible, and I am out of options.

>>basket+Tk
They aren't just showing people how to use their software. Stop defending the bad guys.

>>foobie+sn
I’m not defending the “bad guys”. The original argument was about moral culpability based on distance from the bad deed. Microsoft could have just as easily refused Azure for the ICE contract, but they didn’t, yet somehow they are just far enough away to not be culpable.

>>NoMore+hn
I don't believe borders should exist, but they do. If you say otherwise you are simply in denial. Borders are promises of violence made by nation-states, which I also don't believe in, which nevertheless exist and are harming people.

Whatever ideological differences we may have, need to be shelved. We can bicker about that later. For now, the border of the U.S. exists, and it's killing people.

>>Toucan+Tx
> Whatever ideological differences we may have, need to be shelved. We can bicker about that later. For now, the border of the U.S. exists, and it's killing people.

The ideological differences are, in no small part (directly or implicitly) over whether the border should exist and whether it killing the people it kills is a good or a bad thing. Can’t really just shelve that.

>>dragon+By
Well I figured that case was already covered in the previous comment.

>>basket+yd
From the article

> Palantir is working on a tool for Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) that populates a map with potential deportation targets, brings up a dossier on each person, and provides a “confidence score” on the person’s current address, 404 Media has learned. ICE is using it to find locations where lots of people it might detain could be based.

Is ICE using a general purpose app for surveillance or is Palantir making a deportation-centric app for ICE?

>>NoMore+hn
I believe in borders; my taxes fund my government, and not someone else's. However, there is no US-American "people" aside from the indigenous people who have been massacred. Ever since, it has always been whoever has been here.

>>buelle+PH
Why do you believe in borders?

>>chinat+LZ
As I said: I fund the government; I don't think my government should be beholden to the entire population of the planet.

If there were a world government that I funded, then borders would be unnecessary, but that is not the world in which we live.

>>NoMore+hn
Is this metaphor or did you actually experience this?

>>NonHyl+p51
We are all experiencing this, just at a larger scale. To call it a metaphor is to deny the reality, nothing about this is metaphorical.

It hurts all of us, but those on the left are willing to endure the torment if it they think it hurts their opponents more. They're willing to endure it if they think that tihs will swing voting numbers in their favor in the coming decades. The right to live within the United States, as an actual inalienable right and not just some temporary privilege is called citizenship, and those without it have no such right.

When those of you vote me down so you can pretend that everyone disagrees with me, you're setting yourself up for failure in the future. You will believe your own echo chamber and be sure that the Democrats will inevitably win, once and for all, because how can they not when they never hear anyone disagreeing with them? The numbers aren't on your side at all.