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[parent] [thread] 33 comments
1. hinkle+(OP)[view] [source] 2026-01-13 20:02:19
There’s also a lot of artistic creepers, which predate the internet but the internet shone a light on their creepiness.

I would, for instance, watch The Ninth Gate a couple times a year if Polanski hadn’t directed it, or had directed it post jail instead of hiding from justice for 25 years. Instead I watch it about twice a decade. Luke Beson is almost as problematic, and I have a hard time reconciling just how brilliant Gary Oldman is as Stansfield with how creepy the overall tone is, especially the European cut. I enjoyed that movie when I was young and had seen the American version. Trying to show it to other people (especially the Leon version) and seeing their less enthusiastic reactions made me see the balance of that story less affectionately. As well as seeing it through the lens of an adult responsible for children instead of being the child. Now I watch The Fifth Element and that’s about it.

replies(6): >>franco+Pk >>socalg+Ox >>jonfro+JH >>mschus+3P >>yaksha+IR >>greedo+rx2
2. franco+Pk[view] [source] 2026-01-13 21:24:19
>>hinkle+(OP)
> Luke Beson

Luc Besson.

replies(1): >>hinkle+l76
3. socalg+Ox[view] [source] 2026-01-13 22:18:19
>>hinkle+(OP)
Interesting. I showed my right leaning 83 year old mom the full version of Leon last year, she loved it.
4. jonfro+JH[view] [source] 2026-01-13 23:07:31
>>hinkle+(OP)
The expectation that artists be "good people" always baffles me. Anyone who becomes a great artist has: 1)High levels of narcissism required to think the world needs to hear "your vision. 2) High levels of sociopathy to thrive in a snake pit like the art world or Hollywood. It's even stranger than if someone expected CEOs to be good people (which we don't).
replies(4): >>skeete+z01 >>fc417f+K41 >>hinkle+KY1 >>latexr+Sf3
5. mschus+3P[view] [source] 2026-01-13 23:44:33
>>hinkle+(OP)
I'd add Star Wars to the mix, to be honest - at least the early movies. There's nothing I know of implicating George Lucas to be a sex pest like the other examples you mentioned... but Leia's slave costume is something giving off pretty bad vibes from today's viewpoint.
replies(4): >>Projec+EU >>krapp+sZ >>the_af+5m5 >>shiroi+3G5
6. yaksha+IR[view] [source] 2026-01-13 23:57:36
>>hinkle+(OP)
…what’s wrong with Leon?
replies(1): >>parrel+Aj1
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7. Projec+EU[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 00:13:25
>>mschus+3P
The outfit she's forced into by Jabba? And then she kills him?
replies(2): >>selcuk+841 >>hinkle+SY1
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8. krapp+sZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 00:45:52
>>mschus+3P
>but Leia's slave costume is something giving off pretty bad vibes from today's viewpoint.

It's less revealing than a bikini. It was tame enough for the 1970s and from today's viewpoint it's practically stodgy.

replies(1): >>shiroi+4l5
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9. skeete+z01[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 00:53:32
>>jonfro+JH
I refuse to accept that a genius in their field cannot be a decent human being. If that makes me naive, so be it.
replies(2): >>MrChok+Bf1 >>Earw0r+mx1
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10. selcuk+841[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 01:19:31
>>Projec+EU
I've never understood why Jabba, a male Hutt, would enjoy seeing a female of a completely different species in a revealing outfit.
replies(2): >>krapp+b51 >>defros+Z51
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11. fc417f+K41[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 01:25:18
>>jonfro+JH
Seems like quite some assumptions are being made there. Can't work be done for intrinsic reasons? Can't artists (creators more generally) be insular or even reclusive?
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12. krapp+b51[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 01:28:42
>>selcuk+841
The real answer is because it's a pulp sci-fi movie and Jabba is a gross evil slug monster and him having Leia chained up like that just shows how depraved and dangerous he is. Also Carrie Fisher looks really hot in that outfit and most of the audience is likely to be adolescent boys and men.

The funny answer is.and in a universe in which it's common for alien species to intermingle, and where humans (being the Imperial species) are particularly common, being a "humanophile" might be a kink, the galactic equivalent to being a furry or "monster fucker" in our world.

replies(2): >>accoun+782 >>the_af+Gl5
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13. defros+Z51[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 01:35:23
>>selcuk+841
You're going to struggle with humans shaving and prostituting orangutans, having sex with horses and dogs, etc. then.

As do the majority of people. Still, it happens :/

replies(1): >>selcuk+Zd1
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14. selcuk+Zd1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 02:55:47
>>defros+Z51
Thanks, you successfully ruined my day. /s
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15. MrChok+Bf1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 03:08:36
>>skeete+z01
The difference is between "can be" and "are".
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16. parrel+Aj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 03:45:43
>>yaksha+IR
The long cut implies reciprocation of the girl's crush and that casts further shade on Leon's backstory.
replies(1): >>yaksha+By1
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17. Earw0r+mx1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 06:14:44
>>skeete+z01
They can, but they're competing with assholes, you can figure out the odds.

Like there's an Olympics where everyone's on drugs but a few good folks decide to compete clean.

Want to win fair? Sure, same here. Now here come the whispers, you can just ignore them, sure, but now your girlfriend's pregnant and your bank account is looking a little thin. Good luck.

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18. yaksha+By1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 06:28:35
>>parrel+Aj1
I watched the director’s cut again last week, and I don’t see this at all. The Leon character explicitly refuses Mathilda’s… well they’re not even propositions are they.
replies(1): >>hinkle+gY1
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19. hinkle+gY1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 10:58:35
>>yaksha+By1
It turns out that Jean Reno refused to film the scenes as Besson wanted them to be.
replies(1): >>yaksha+lk2
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20. hinkle+KY1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 11:01:39
>>jonfro+JH
I can't agree with that. While unwavering determination is definitely necessary to overcome lack of success, there are other ways to achieve that.

And as was once put to me, the reason that some artists are not appreciated until after their death isn't just a matter of not meeting your heroes, but because they understood something about the present moment that the public was not yet prepared to reflect upon. That we appreciate them in retrospect because they tell us something we are not yet ready to hear. That requires a degree of empathy for humanity that is not well represented in a strictly narcissistic diagnosis.

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21. hinkle+SY1[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 11:03:01
>>Projec+EU
Jabba doesn't exist. The writers and directors exist.
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22. accoun+782[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 12:19:21
>>krapp+b51
It's not even a given that Jabba has her in that outfit because he finds it attractive. It could just as well be to titillate human guests or a pure power play.
replies(1): >>krapp+yf2
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23. krapp+yf2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 13:13:12
>>accoun+782
Fair, although I think in Doylist terms it isn't that deep, especially when we're considering George Lucas. It's a common enough villain trope.

But Jabba did give her a good lick, so it seems like there's something he liked.

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24. yaksha+lk2[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 13:41:08
>>hinkle+gY1
Ok. I'm not convinced at this point, because I don't know how Besson allegedly wanted the scenes to be filmed. And that isn't to say I approve of Luc Besson's choices in his personal life — I find the idea of a romance between a 32 year old and a 15 year old unacceptable. Whether there are parallels between his private life and his artistic expression, I am unwilling to speculate on.
25. greedo+rx2[view] [source] 2026-01-14 14:59:40
>>hinkle+(OP)
Read some interviews with Spielberg and Lucas about how they wanted the Marion character to act and the age they originally wanted. It's not pretty at all. I'm not sure who convinced them to follow a different path, but Raiders of the Lost Ark would have been quite a different film if they had followed through with some of the ideas they were spitballing.
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26. latexr+Sf3[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 17:57:02
>>jonfro+JH
Keanu Reeves, Dolly Parton, Weird Al Yankovic, Bryan Cranston… By all accounts I ever found, they’ve always been described as genuinely nice human beings.
replies(1): >>shiroi+Ok5
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27. shiroi+Ok5[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-15 03:03:17
>>latexr+Sf3
I don't think I've ever heard anyone describe Keanu Reaves as a "great artist". Quite the opposite in fact. Most charitably, he's a decent character actor who does really well in certain roles that suit him well, but outside of those, he is not a great actor. He also allegedly plays bass in a band decently well, though again is no world-class master of the instrument.

But yeah, he's generally acknowledged as a really nice guy, and also easy to work with.

Weird Al Yankovic, too, is not generally considered a "great artist". A funny musician who made a career making silly parody songs a few decades ago, sure, but that's not what I'd call a "great artist". Again, not to denigrate his work; it was pretty funny stuff as I recall, but nothing super-amazing.

By contrast, people who are generally considered the very top of their profession frequently have serious personality problems. Kevin Spacey was considered one of the best actors in Hollywood, and look what happened to him. Tom Cruise is generally considered one of the most talented actors of all time, and while he's amazing on-screen, he's a certifiable crackpot and mouthpiece for a dangerous cult. Klaus Kinski was also an extremely talented actor, and also extremely mentally ill and unstable.

replies(1): >>latexr+vc6
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28. shiroi+4l5[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-15 03:05:45
>>krapp+sZ
Nitpick: it was tame enough for the 1980s. Return of the Jedi came out in 1983.
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29. the_af+Gl5[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-15 03:12:47
>>krapp+b51
> Also Carrie Fisher looks really hot in that outfit and most of the audience is likely to be adolescent boys and men.

Well said. It feels really weird to have to defend this in this day and age.

It's ok for a hot actress to be dressed in a skimpy outfit. It was a big deal for our young selves when we watched her. Leia also ends up kicking butt (or kicking Hutt) and it's not like she's underdressed or incompetent in the movies.

This is driving me nuts, people making a big deal out of the slave Leia costume. The only person who had a right to complain was Carrie Fisher -- and she did, because it was an uncomfortable costume.

It's ok to have sexy accesses in sexy outfits. It's not ok if those are the only roles they get, but this wasn't the case.

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30. the_af+5m5[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-15 03:17:19
>>mschus+3P
> but Leia's slave costume is something giving off pretty bad vibes from today's viewpoint.

No, it doesn't give bad vibes. It was a sexy actress wearing a skimpy outfit for a couple of scenes in the whole goddamn trilogy! And she kicked butt.

Repeat after me: sexy scenes in movies are ok. And young Carrie Fisher was hot, and that was also ok. I was half in love with her when I first watched Star Wars.

Now, you can ask why Mark Hamill or Harrison Ford weren't put in skimpy outfits and whether it was more often women who got those scenes, and that'd be pertinent. But this doesn't give slave Leia a bad vibe.

It's OK if those scenes had sexy vibes. Sexy vibes aren't bad. This didn't define Leia either, she was mostly competent and kicked imperial butt.

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31. shiroi+3G5[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-15 06:31:59
>>mschus+3P
George Lucas does *not* have a reputation as an amazing or fantastic director (like Roman Polanski etc.). In fact, quite the opposite: his Star Wars prequels have some of the worst direction I've ever seen. His first three SW movies were great, but they were very much team efforts, and in the first one, his wife heavily edited it to make it come out so well. The other two weren't even directed by George. George is (was?) a brilliant ideas person: he had a great vision for his movies, and picked some great people to work with (esp. in FX), but he sucked at actual execution and working with actors and script-writing and all that stuff. His best legacy, aside from the first Star Wars, is really his FX company, Industrial Light & Magic, not his work as director.

Leia's slave costume was nothing awful, was perfectly acceptable in 1983, and shows much less skin than a bikini, and was forced on her by an evil and ruthless gang boss who liked to eat his slaves at times, or feed them to his monsters.

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32. hinkle+l76[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-15 10:14:21
>>franco+Pk
Dudes who have children with 16 year old girls don't get their name spelled right.
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33. latexr+vc6[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-15 11:06:29
>>shiroi+Ok5
I notice you skipped two of the names, including Dolly Parton, which I included specifically for nitpickers.

And you’re treating Al as a has-been, but his latest album was number one in the US charts.

What exactly makes a “great artist” then? Surely that’s subjective, and popularity isn’t the only metric. We’re talking “great”, not simply “famous”.

But alright, take your pick:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahdobro/nicest-celebs-people-ha...

https://www.quora.com/What-famous-rock-musicians-are-genuine...

https://www.reddit.com/r/popheads/comments/s4rrug/artists_th...

Plenty of names there who are “generally considered the very top of their profession”, and bigger than the ones you picked.

replies(1): >>shiroi+eZ8
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34. shiroi+eZ8[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-16 00:37:59
>>latexr+vc6
I skipped Dolly because I honestly don't know enough about country music to know if she's a "great artist" or merely "famous over a long time". Same for the other guy: I'm just not familiar. But I called out your choice of Keanu because it's really well-known that he is not a great actor, and he probably agrees. But it's great that he made a good career for himself anyway; as I said, he does well in certain roles that fit him well. I don't consider myself the top 1% in my profession either.

Of course, I guess this could easily veer off into a discussion about what qualifies as "great artist". Does a top-selling musician/singer who has limited range or uses autotune count, or does someone with amazing technical ability but little commercial success not count? Does a "wooden" actor qualify as a "greater artist" if they've grossed higher than Daniel Day Lewis?

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