zlacker

This is nuts. I am deeply worried we are headed towards open armed conflict. The violence against political opponents must stop, no matter who it is.

>>Molito+(OP)
The best prevention is deterrence.

>>Molito+(OP)
Ruling out nation state actors that have a vested interest in political divide and chaos and distraction is not the best starting point.

>>Molito+(OP)
It may make no difference but as of now we have no idea who did this or why. We still have no idea what was the motive of the man who shot Trump's ear.

>>tootie+lm
We don't know how motive? He didn't shoot Trump's ear, he shot Trump, because he wanted to kill Trump... I don't get how much clearer a motive could be!

>>tootie+lm
We don't have "no idea". We have god knows how many hours of the dead guy spewing his opinions in 1080p and 4k. And for all of those variety opinions we know who gets pissed off by them.

I mean, sure, it could've been a crazy ex or a former business partner or whatever. But how many crazy ex's can one guy have? And he's pissed off god knows how many people by saying things? Strictly by the numbers this was almost certainly someone who hated him for what he said.

Statistically most people don't go out like Ozzy (i.e. spend a good chunk of your life doing something likely to be the death of you only to get dead by something completely unrelated)

>>komali+Vv
His actions aren't a motive. They turned his life upside down and didn't find any strong political opinions and no indication he hated Trump. People also do stuff like this to get attention. The guy who shot at Reagan wanted to impress Jodie Foster.

>>potato+0z
If we're placing bets, you'd bet on political motive but we're not placing bets. I'll throw out one option that's been very popular on the right wing conspiracy circuit and maybe it was a false flag to set the stage for Martial Law. I have no proof it's true and no proof it isn't.

>>Molito+(OP)
I recommend the movie "Civil War" very original. Not saying that will happen but the movie is great.

>>komali+Vv
The biography of the kid shows no coherent political beliefs. He appeared to be interested in also killing Biden. It just so happens, Trump’s campaign event was very close to Crooks’ home.

https://www.salon.com/2024/07/18/would-be-assassin-may-have-...

>>wslh+fC
I found the movie to be hollow and contradictory to the point that I couldn’t suspend disbelief.

>>thephy+GI
haven't seen it, so I shouldn't comment, but from the reviews they went out of their way to make the movie apolitical, or at least to obfuscate the setting's relation to our current zeitgeist. which resulted in a tortured, implausible scenario.

if that was their goal, it would have been better to never explain the conflict in the first place. just start in medias res, with asemic dialogue and references.

I wish they'd try again and do better.

>>ratg13+9m
My starting point is:

> extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

I don’t need to “rule out” nation state actors. The onus is on someone to prove it involves nation state actors (and which nation is pretty important, too).

>>Molito+(OP)
Political violence is apparently on the decline in America. At least that’s what a study concluded late last year

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/22/us/politics/political-vio...

>>tootie+7B
Martial law has never been applied nation-wide, and it would likely not work at all but rather it would set the stage for some states to refuse federal authority, possibly leading to civil war. I know many fantasize that Trump wants all of that, but any sober observer realizes those are just that: fantasies.

>>wslh+fC
I really liked it. Beautifully made film. But it just rides on shock value. It doesn't have anything interesting to say about the topic.

>>thephy+iK
Translation - I made up my own narrative

>>crypto+PW
I think it's not likely at all but we've been knocking down precedents one by one. Due process is buckling. He just murdered 11 Venezuelan civilians to see if anyone would stop him. He has deployed troops to US cities. He has endowed ICE with an unprecedented amount of money. Project 2025 has been implemented bit by bit and it endorses abusing the Insurrection Act. And he already attempted a violent coup before. It may not happen but it's not fantasy.

>>crypto+PW
Ironically enough Kirk was advocating for it just weeks ago: https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/charlie-kirk-calls-full-...

I think it's unwise to be reflexively dismissive when norms that were previously taken for granted turn out to be ephemeral. I find a useful heuristic/gut check is to imagine explaining news from the previous week/month/year to someone who had just woken up from an extended coma.

>>kaycey+mX
My takeaway was civil war isn't something to be desired in any way, not even journalists who might gain (money, work, notoriety) regardless of the outcome.

The shock seems to be the point.

Quite different from all the documentaries my dad was really into about the US civil war. (Many of which lionized the southern generals.) Or annoying "states rights" points that he seems to have picked up from some YouTube gutter.

>>dmix+jK
I don't think attitudinal surveys are of much value here. If you ask someone whether they support murder very few are going to give you an affirmative answer. Even people who advocate for political violence will jump through wild rhetorical hoops when challenged about it, eg arguing that communists aren't people and therefore killing them isn't murder.

I think it's better to look at the actual incidence of violence than to extrapolate from weakly correlated leading indicators.

https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/articles/the-rise-of-poli...

>>anigbr+RO2
Hyperbole. That's not advocating for violence.

>>tootie+4m2
> He just murdered 11 Venezuelan civilians

Please do Obama now. All U.S. Presidents from both parties have been doing these sorts of interventions for decades.

>>crypto+YY2
You specifically talked about martial law and I gave you a relevant and recent remark Kirk made about that topic, and explained why I thought your analysis was flawed.

>>anigbr+p33
"other large American cities" does not mean the same thing as "nationwide".