zlacker

[parent] [thread] 134 comments
1. vik0+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-09-10 19:39:20
Am I wrong in thinking this guy isn't/wasn't a very influential person, outside of Twitter and the people that stay on there 24/7? If so, why even target the poor guy? What change was the person who shot him hoping to elicit? Either way, I hope he makes it, even though it looks like it was a fatal blow
replies(47): >>hypeat+w >>ceejay+y >>garbth+L >>shadow+44 >>trippl+f5 >>daedrd+27 >>simian+M8 >>ramoz+fc >>pphysc+Gc >>orions+8e >>phendr+zg >>skissa+zh >>slowha+Wi >>paxys+aj >>kfrzco+xj >>nicce+Po >>dylan6+np >>rented+9q >>runjak+3r >>seydor+hs >>suppor+Bs >>pjc50+Ds >>JacobT+zu >>cmiles+Vx >>croes+Ly >>umvi+Mz >>Compou+2D >>antonv+yG >>4ndrew+DG >>poksta+SJ >>goodlu+mK >>tomber+wQ >>Aeolun+KR >>dragon+IS >>mhh__+TS >>chasd0+VS >>crispi+XU >>pm90+k01 >>loughn+pb1 >>crypto+zj1 >>myname+1k1 >>thephy+Xk1 >>ronces+Ks1 >>anigbr+3D1 >>Animal+Ok2 >>Rover2+Bw3 >>native+zX5
2. hypeat+w[view] [source] 2025-09-10 19:42:16
>>vik0+(OP)
He ran a very large conservative organization that operates on college campuses across the country. He's definitely an influential figure.
3. ceejay+y[view] [source] 2025-09-10 19:42:27
>>vik0+(OP)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_Point_USA

> TPUSA has been described as the fastest growing organization of campus chapters in America, and according to The Chronicle of Higher Education, is the dominant force in campus conservatism.

They've been quite influential, and those campus efforts likely contributed to the Gen Z turnout that helped win in 2024.

replies(2): >>sbmtha+4u >>rektom+0u2
4. garbth+L[view] [source] 2025-09-10 19:43:16
>>vik0+(OP)
Im not american, but consume american media because you guys are the world leaders. But charlie had the number 1 youth conservative movement in the country , he is pretty influential
replies(2): >>vik0+d1 >>tcmart+hf4
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5. vik0+d1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 19:45:38
>>garbth+L
I'm not American either
replies(1): >>whacke+k92
6. shadow+44[view] [source] 2025-09-10 20:02:00
>>vik0+(OP)
Twitter has an estimated monthly active users in excess of the population of the United States by nearly a factor of two.

Even if we assume those numbers are inflated, that's quite a bit of influence if someone is influential only on Twitter.

7. trippl+f5[view] [source] 2025-09-10 20:07:57
>>vik0+(OP)
He was just made fun of on the new season on South Park, if you consider that to be influential.
replies(2): >>louthy+vd >>aerost+Bt
8. daedrd+27[view] [source] 2025-09-10 20:17:33
>>vik0+(OP)
He hand picked many of the Trump admin cabinet. He absolutely wielded power
9. simian+M8[view] [source] 2025-09-10 20:25:21
>>vik0+(OP)
Almost all politicians have tweeted about him now. There’s no way he’s not influential.
10. ramoz+fc[view] [source] 2025-09-10 20:40:07
>>vik0+(OP)
He drew a massive college crowd and was shot at that event. That's your answer.
11. pphysc+Gc[view] [source] 2025-09-10 20:41:43
>>vik0+(OP)
Benjamin Netayahu and Trump tweeted support for Kirk within half an hour of the shooting.
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12. louthy+vd[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 20:45:52
>>trippl+f5
As a non-American, non-Twitter user, this was how I heard about him.
13. orions+8e[view] [source] 2025-09-10 20:48:39
>>vik0+(OP)
Twitter and the terminally online need to touch grass and overemphasize things that the real world doesn’t care about, but, to an approximation, it is the vanguard and real world talking points, political trends, etc, are all downstream from there. So yes, someone very influential with the Twitter crowd is influential.
replies(1): >>AaronA+tN
14. phendr+zg[view] [source] 2025-09-10 20:58:49
>>vik0+(OP)
I think his clips were consistently viral on platforms like Tiktok, YouTube shorts, Instagram reels, etc., both by those who agreed with him and those who were doing reaction videos against him.
15. skissa+zh[view] [source] 2025-09-10 21:02:35
>>vik0+(OP)
> Am I wrong in thinking this guy isn't/wasn't a very influential person, outside of Twitter and the people that stay on there 24/7?

I’d heard of him-I’ve lived my whole life in Australia, and although I have a Twitter/X account, I almost never use it, and that’s not a new thing, I dabbled with it but never committed.

Do most Australians know who he was? I don’t have any hard data, but my “No” to that is very confident. But I remember briefly discussing him (in person) with one of my old friends from high school, who is deep into right-wing politics (he’s a member of Australia’s One Nation party, which a lot of people would label “far right”, yet mainstream enough to have a small number of seats in Parliament)

replies(2): >>ACow_A+Gl >>nandom+w81
16. slowha+Wi[view] [source] 2025-09-10 21:08:44
>>vik0+(OP)
He’s a martyr now.
replies(1): >>quanti+Vm
17. paxys+aj[view] [source] 2025-09-10 21:09:57
>>vik0+(OP)
His assassination is making the front page across the world. I'd call that influental.
replies(1): >>thephy+Sy6
18. kfrzco+xj[view] [source] 2025-09-10 21:11:09
>>vik0+(OP)
Yes, you're wrong. He was very influential and a leader of the youthful conservative movement in our country. TPUSA is extremely popular. This was an abhorrent, horrifyingly public assassination of a very popular figure -- one who has been honestly quite milquetoast in terms of conservative ideology compared to other well-known figures. He wasn't even running for political office, he simply encouraged political participation, open debate, and the free exchange of ideas in a public forum. He grew TPUSA into a bastion of grassroots revitalization in community-first politics. Truly truly sickening.
replies(2): >>autoex+7u >>kennyl+A21
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19. ACow_A+Gl[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 21:20:53
>>skissa+zh
As a comparatively politically aware Australian, I had absolutely no idea who he is/was, but then I don't have any Twitter or general social media presence or consumption.
replies(3): >>skissa+rm >>mandee+Yo >>skissa+NN
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20. skissa+rm[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 21:23:35
>>ACow_A+Gl
My (limited) knowledge of him was mainly from reading the traditional US media, not from social media… I swear I’d read some article about him in the NY Times or the Atlantic or something like that. My brain files him next to Ben Shapiro
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21. quanti+Vm[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 21:25:29
>>slowha+Wi
Over the next short while, he might be. Let's see.
replies(1): >>slowha+sx
22. nicce+Po[view] [source] 2025-09-10 21:32:11
>>vik0+(OP)
At the moment he was shot, he was answering for questions about transgender shootings. If the timing was calculated, it could be a political message or very strong personal hatred in this context.
replies(1): >>qingch+qd1
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23. mandee+Yo[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 21:32:53
>>ACow_A+Gl
> I had absolutely no idea who he is/was

Me too! I follow politics, elections, and world affairs very closely, but I am embarrassed to admit - I had no idea who he was. Although I had heard about 'Turning Point USA'.

24. dylan6+np[view] [source] 2025-09-10 21:34:44
>>vik0+(OP)
Yes, I'd say you are wrong. If you look at a lot of the clips of the right wing folks giving some of their most right wing comments, the stage they are on will have the Turning Point logos on them. So if not him specifically, his organization is very influential.
25. rented+9q[view] [source] 2025-09-10 21:37:47
>>vik0+(OP)
> What change was the person who shot him hoping to elicit?

I think a difficulty in searching for such answers is assuming that it was a well reasoned decision. I'm not sure how often attempting to take a life is a purely rational decision, devoid of intense emotional motivations (hatred, self-preservation, fear, revenge, etc.). And that's all assuming the assailant was of somewhat sound mind.

I think one of the dangers of more and more extreme divisions in society is that those divisions cloud our mental processes, threaten our emotional health, and take away opportunities for meaningful civil discourse. All of which can lead to more heinous acts that we struggle to make sense of. One of the scariest parts for me is that this can all be too self reinforcing ("Their side did this bad thing to our side, let's get them back!!!" repeat/escalate...). How do we break the cycle?

26. runjak+3r[view] [source] 2025-09-10 21:40:44
>>vik0+(OP)
> Am I wrong in thinking this guy isn't/wasn't a very influential person, outside of Twitter and the people that stay on there 24/7?

Yes, you're wrong there (no offense). He's quite popular beyond X (formerly Twitter), particularly amongst the young (~20s) conservative movements. For example, he has almost 4 million subscribers on YouTube and similar on TikTok.

I'd say X isn't even his most popular platform. He's much more popular on video platforms, due to his open campus debates.

I attended one of Charlie's debates this past year and they pretty much let anyone walk up to the mic. It wasn't scripted or censored, that I saw.

replies(2): >>PaulDa+mE >>8note+xf1
27. seydor+hs[view] [source] 2025-09-10 21:45:26
>>vik0+(OP)
even if he s not that famous outside US, he might be targeted to send a message
28. suppor+Bs[view] [source] 2025-09-10 21:46:32
>>vik0+(OP)
>> Twitter and the people that stay on there 24/7

That is a lot of people

replies(1): >>disgru+OG2
29. pjc50+Ds[view] [source] 2025-09-10 21:46:52
>>vik0+(OP)
As a practical question: it would be useful to have a transcript of his final speech, on a page without any graphic images of his death.
replies(1): >>1gn15+7S2
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30. aerost+Bt[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 21:50:50
>>trippl+f5
I thought he took it in good sport. They didn't exactly hold back on him.

Given that and the fact that we're in the middle of a new South Park season, a show known for its last-minute incorporation of real-world news into storylines, it will be interesting to see how the show handles this tragic development.

replies(1): >>baby_s+911
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31. sbmtha+4u[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 21:52:47
>>ceejay+y
I was doing Masters in the US from 2021-23 and do recall getting their emails to my University email.
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32. autoex+7u[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 21:52:57
>>kfrzco+xj
> one who has been honestly quite milquetoast in terms of conservative ideology compared to other well-known figures.

That says a lot more about those "other well-known figures" than it does about him and his already extreme ideology

33. JacobT+zu[view] [source] 2025-09-10 21:54:29
>>vik0+(OP)
>why even target the poor guy

There are plenty of dangerous mentally ill people out there who don't use any type of logic or reason as a basis for their decision-making.

replies(3): >>pjc50+1D >>kulaha+vI >>thephy+gx6
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34. slowha+sx[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 22:07:05
>>quanti+Vm
He is now.
35. cmiles+Vx[view] [source] 2025-09-10 22:08:44
>>vik0+(OP)
My dude, the article in the Washington Post starts out with…

“Charlie Kirk, founder of the conservative youth organization Turning Point USA, died Wednesday after being shot at an event at Utah Valley University, President Donald Trump said.”

He influenced the US President, that seems pretty influential to me. Anecdotally, my kid in high school surprised me by knowing quite a lot about them.

36. croes+Ly[view] [source] 2025-09-10 22:13:36
>>vik0+(OP)
What do you think how Trump and his administration will react.

What if that is purpose?

37. umvi+Mz[view] [source] 2025-09-10 22:18:56
>>vik0+(OP)
I saw his videos occasionally on youtube/facebook. I didn't really agree with his stances on immigration most of the time, though I thought some of his other arguments on other topics were thought provoking at least, and I also thought it was cool that he always had an open mic for anyone that wanted to debate him. Seemed like he had an encyclopedic memory when it came to things like SCOTUS cases or historical events.
replies(2): >>ourman+TT >>nailer+pk2
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38. pjc50+1D[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 22:34:22
>>JacobT+zu
Interesting to see someone whose decision making is so disordered that they manage to carry out a shot from 200 meters and then disappear. That looks more like a carefully planned crime than madness.
replies(4): >>swader+DJ >>edm0nd+2T >>accoun+Y12 >>whacke+Sa2
39. Compou+2D[view] [source] 2025-09-10 22:34:23
>>vik0+(OP)
Southpark made fun of him in a recent episode. Heard the name assumed he was a yet another alt right influencer podcaster.
replies(1): >>judah+lN
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40. PaulDa+mE[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 22:41:34
>>runjak+3r
He was also very good at superficially solid rebuttals and responses that were hard to counter without providing a short course on the history and context of the issue at hand. I never thought of him as a "good" debater and I vehemently disagree with his public views, but he was very effective in the media and event situations he operated in.
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41. runjak+bG[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 22:51:11
>>PaulDa+mE
Agreed and well said. I also disagreed with a lot of his views. But, at the same time when I started watching his content, I realized his detractors overstretched the truth about a lot of what he said. Not all of it, but a lot of it.
42. antonv+yG[view] [source] 2025-09-10 22:54:10
>>vik0+(OP)
He gave an invited speech at the Republican National Convention on its first night, and is credited with helping Trump get elected. “Very influential” might even be an understatement.

The problem is that that kind of influence often goes under the radar for people outside the circles in question, because influence is no longer mediated as centrally as it used to be, it’s more targeted and siloed. That’s a big part of how the current political situation in the US arose.

43. 4ndrew+DG[view] [source] 2025-09-10 22:54:34
>>vik0+(OP)
I'd never heard of him and now I hear flags across the US will be at-half mast. He's was a billionaire-sponsored influencer if I understand it correctly?
replies(1): >>queenk+sL
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44. kulaha+vI[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 23:06:21
>>JacobT+zu
I don’t know why this is downvoted. It’s not incorrect. I posit that everyone who’s willing to kill someone in cold blood is at least a little off their rocker.
replies(2): >>whacke+kb2 >>thephy+Mx6
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45. swader+DJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 23:12:11
>>pjc50+1D
That they didn't account for drop and hit the neck shows that they weren't in fact very competent.
replies(1): >>queenk+lL
46. poksta+SJ[view] [source] 2025-09-10 23:13:32
>>vik0+(OP)
I think he was more influential to the younger generation. I saw Gavin Newsom interview Kirk, and Newsom opened by saying his son followed Kirk to a certain extent.
47. goodlu+mK[view] [source] 2025-09-10 23:16:38
>>vik0+(OP)
Yeah, he was a minor / outlying figure in the same sense that Archduke Franz Ferdinand was.
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48. queenk+lL[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 23:21:51
>>swader+DJ
[flagged]
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49. queenk+sL[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 23:22:40
>>4ndrew+DG
Correct
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50. judah+lN[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 23:33:44
>>Compou+2D
Conservative, but definitely not alt-right. Kirk was a strong supporter of Jews and Israel, which put him at odds with the antisemitic alt-right.

Kirk regularly spoke out against antisemitism on both the left and right. So much so, in fact, Israeli Prime Minister tweeted[0] his condolences, praising Kirk as a strong, positive force for Jewish and Christian values.

[0]: https://x.com/netanyahu/status/1965888327938158764

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51. AaronA+tN[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 23:34:46
>>orions+8e
He was literally influential for touching grass on college campuses across the country, peacefully engaging in open discussions with people who disagreed with him.
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52. skissa+NN[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-10 23:37:01
>>ACow_A+Gl
My wife had no idea who he was when I said his name… but when she saw a photo, she remembered him from videos which appeared on her Facebook feed in which he argues about abortion and transgender issues. She is Facebook friends with a lot of right-wing Americans, she doesn’t share their politics, but they connected due to a shared interest in Farmville
53. tomber+wQ[view] [source] 2025-09-10 23:58:21
>>vik0+(OP)
I first heard about him in around 2016, shortly after Trump was elected the first time. I'm pretty chronically online, but I was never very active on Twitter and I was still pretty aware of him. I've always found him pretty insufferable, though not as bad as Nick Feuntes or Steven Crowder.
54. Aeolun+KR[view] [source] 2025-09-11 00:06:06
>>vik0+(OP)
You probably target the ones you have a chance of getting at? Trying to do this to Trump would theoretically be preferable to the shooter, but a great deal harder.
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55. Teever+rS[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 00:11:17
>>PaulDa+mE
I think that there's great insight in your observation.

To me what's been going on is a shakedown run of the new mediums and how they exploit cognitive defects and lack of exposure in audiences.

In a total Marshall McLuhan "The Medium is the Message" kind of way some people like Shapiro, Trump, and Kirk just naturally groove in certain mediums and are able to play them like Ray Charles plays the piano.

And because society doesn't have any sort of natural exposure to this they're able to gain massive audiences and use that influence for nefarious purposes.

I'm not sure what the solution to this problem is though.

On the one had I think that there is going to be a natural feedback mechanism that puts keeps their population in check (which is basically what we just saw today) but that isn't the most desireable outcome.

56. dragon+IS[view] [source] 2025-09-11 00:13:11
>>vik0+(OP)
> Am I wrong in thinking this guy isn't/wasn't a very influential person, outside of Twitter and the people that stay on there 24/7?

Yes, you are wrong, he was the leader of the most powerful campus conservative movement group in the country, was an extremely prominent figure in right-wing media, to the point where he is a central figure in pop culture images of the right, and a central target for being too soft of organizing figures for even farthe-right groups.

> What change was the person who shot him hoping to elicit?

Motives for assassinations (attempted or actual) of politicial figures are often incoherent. Political assassins aren’t always (or even often) strategic actors with a clear, rationally designed programs.

57. mhh__+TS[view] [source] 2025-09-11 00:14:23
>>vik0+(OP)
In naive political terms he wasn't all that important but I think two points in response to that:

1. He was influential in a influential circle of people who roughly speaking drive what gets discussed and shown to a wider audience. In a favourite-band's favourite-band sense. His jubilee video just recently got 31 million views on youtube and probably a billion more on tiktok and reels.

2. If he wasn't killed by some nut who thought the flying spaghetti monster told him to do it then this is a really clear example of online politics and discourse jumping violently into the physical world. That's a real vibe shift if I have it right that it's basically the first assassination of that kind.

It wouldn't shock me at all if the driving topic here was actually gaza rather than domestic politics.

58. chasd0+VS[view] [source] 2025-09-11 00:14:42
>>vik0+(OP)
> If so, why even target the poor guy?

Crazy people murder all the time, hell he probably did it for a girl. See the movie Taxi Driver.

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59. edm0nd+2T[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 00:15:50
>>pjc50+1D
200 meters isn't that far of a shot if you are familiar with shooting or a hunter. I regularly take down deer at 200-300 yards.

The shooter is also in custody already and captured thankfully.

replies(3): >>mmmrtl+DT >>Simula+s31 >>thephy+Ml1
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60. mmmrtl+DT[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 00:20:20
>>edm0nd+2T
second suspect also released...
replies(1): >>edm0nd+F61
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61. ourman+TT[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 00:21:28
>>umvi+Mz
Charlie didn't debate so much as followed a script and steered you towards his gotcha questions to create content for his show.

He recently went to Cambridge Univ and debated a student who actual knew his routine. It didn't go well for him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn0_2iACV-A

replies(2): >>toomim+m61 >>mangod+nq1
62. crispi+XU[view] [source] 2025-09-11 00:29:03
>>vik0+(OP)
> What change was the person who shot him hoping to elicit?

This would be a relevant question in many nations, but it's a bit beside the point in the US. Violence is a deeply respected and loved core of the culture for its own sake. It's an end, not means. Nearly all the US's entertainment, culture and myths are built around a reverence for violence. Even political violence has been pretty much the norm through most of the US's history. Celebrated cases aside, there's been something of a lull since the mid 1970s, but if as now likely it increases again, this will be a boring old reversion to the US's norm.

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63. sorami+jZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 00:59:50
>>PaulDa+mE
The South Park version of him put it well:

> Mom, you don’t understand. I’m getting really good at this. I have my arguments down rock solid. These young college girls are totally unprepared, so I can just destroy them and also edit out all the ones that actually argue back well. It just feels so good.

64. pm90+k01[view] [source] 2025-09-11 01:08:45
>>vik0+(OP)
Why do so many school shootings happen in the US? Often its simply that people who should never have access to lethal firearms are able to get them easily.
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65. baby_s+911[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 01:16:09
>>aerost+Bt
They have moved to a 2-week cadence for the season. Next episode should be a week from today which does give them plenty of time to incorporate this development.
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66. kennyl+A21[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 01:29:12
>>kfrzco+xj
Dude, if you followed his teachings you wouldn’t feel this way… "I can't stand the word empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made up. new age term, and it does a lot of damage.” - Charlie Kirk
replies(1): >>exodus+ut1
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67. Simula+s31[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 01:36:32
>>edm0nd+2T
Oswald was 300 yards away.
replies(1): >>akimbo+n02
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68. toomim+m61[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 02:00:21
>>ourman+TT
Instead of linking to a one-sided reframing of the debate, here's the actual debate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mvIktYig9Y

It seems to be a healthy debate for both sides.

replies(1): >>ourman+g71
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69. edm0nd+F61[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 02:04:09
>>mmmrtl+DT
Just saw that. LE gotta be going wild atm.
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70. ourman+g71[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 02:07:55
>>toomim+m61
That's a link to Charlie's own post of the debate.

It seems to be a healthy debate to someone who doesn't know Charlie's logical fallacies and scripted style.

replies(1): >>tim333+8K1
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71. nandom+w81[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 02:18:25
>>skissa+zh
One Nation voter checking in.

Been following Charlie Kirk for two or three years now.

The shooting is front and centre on the ABC news website.

72. loughn+pb1[view] [source] 2025-09-11 02:46:00
>>vik0+(OP)
The Economist did a briefing on him in July which explains his increasingly large influence pretty well.

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2025/07/18/charlie-k...

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73. qingch+qd1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 03:06:01
>>nicce+Po
And his answer was bigoted. I'm paraphrasing, but I believe someone asked "do you know how many mass shooters are trans?" and he said "too many."

Didn't like the guy, but he was just a guy expressing a horrible opinion. Violence was not the answer.

replies(3): >>al_bor+6i1 >>whacke+G92 >>drewbe+o73
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74. 8note+xf1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 03:22:35
>>runjak+3r
its scripted in terms of that he had a script that he would run.

that cambridge woman had prepared for exactly what he would say in the same order than he said it and what order he would change topics in. he practiced his script a ton, even if the other person with a mic wasnt on a scrip

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75. al_bor+6i1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 03:43:02
>>qingch+qd1
“Too many” sounds like a valid answer for any question about the number of mass shooters. Remove “trans” from the question and it’s still a valid answer. Substitute in any other demographic, and it’s still a valid answer (assuming someone from that demographic has been a shooter). Even one mass shooting is too many.

It sounds like more of a loaded question than a problematic answer.

replies(3): >>kashun+Hq1 >>nptelj+VC1 >>LordDr+Bd5
76. crypto+zj1[view] [source] 2025-09-11 03:58:49
>>vik0+(OP)
> What change was the person who shot him hoping to elicit?

We don't know yet, but we can infer these possible changes "the person who shot him [was] hoping to elicit":

- stop an effective communicator from further moving the needle of public opinion in his side's favor

- intimidate other effective communicators with similar views

- intimidate other future possible effective communicators with similar views

- cause more violence (some people love chaos and violence)

77. myname+1k1[view] [source] 2025-09-11 04:03:29
>>vik0+(OP)
Charlie Kirk never really presented him this way but he was the founder & head of one of the largest think-tanks that is up there with Heritage Foundation. TPUSA was responsible for translating conservative values to Gen-Z/YA who were an all-but-forgotten demographic by mainstream GOP.
replies(1): >>thephy+ul1
78. thephy+Xk1[view] [source] 2025-09-11 04:16:00
>>vik0+(OP)
He was the public face of Turning Point USA, a political organization that focused on getting more youth in the USA to turn conservative / Republican, to vote, and to adopt a more conservative culture. By “public face”, I mean he was 17 when he cofounded it with an octogenarian and a billionaire funder.

I think he and the org were active on Twitter, but they were MUCH more active on YouTube, and short form video (Instagram, TikTok).

It’s not even clear we know who the shooter is (still conflicting reports about whether the suspect has been arrested, let alone a confirmed identity). Too soon to know what the motive is.

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79. thephy+ul1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 04:23:14
>>myname+1k1
He was a cofounder, along with Bill Montgomery, an octogenarian Tea Party Republican.

Kirk was the young face who brought lots of energy, but he was well funded by old Republicans (incl. Foster Friess).

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80. thephy+Ml1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 04:25:54
>>edm0nd+2T
There are still conflicting reports about whether the shooter is in custody.

The first person of interest was detained, but released.

FBI director says a suspect is in custody. That governor says a person of interest is in custody. Local police say the shooter is still at large. This is what Reuters was reporting as of 1 hour ago.

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81. mangod+nq1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 05:18:59
>>ourman+TT
That might be one account of that debate, but certainly many disagree with you and the video. I watched the original and I think he did well in the debate. You posting a video that is clearly against him is only evidence of your stance.
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82. kashun+Hq1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 05:22:40
>>al_bor+6i1
> It sounds like more of a loaded question than a problematic answer.

I honestly don’t know what the actual factual answer to the question is. 1? 2? But the question warranted an answer, even if it was “I don’t know.” Given that the answer to many questions about mass shooting, specific or otherwise, is “too many,” the answer he gave offered no factual data. Maybe he was prepared to offer something more fact-based and nuanced. But to me the answer he gave comes off as dismissive, lacking in additional data, and possibly ideologically-motivated.

I imagine the question was posed because many in the community adjacent to Kirk are looking for an excuse to see trans people further isolated and stripped of their rights. Forcing the debate - if we can call it that - into the world of facts doesn’t seem problematic to me.

83. ronces+Ks1[view] [source] 2025-09-11 05:40:31
>>vik0+(OP)
I think you're out-of-touch. It felt like he was the single most popular non-politician non-podcaster political commentator on social media for Americans under 30, and I'm not even in the target demographic that he's popular with.
replies(1): >>astura+032
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84. exodus+ut1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 05:47:36
>>kennyl+A21
Dude, that quote is out of context. He said he prefers "sympathy" to "empathy" and went on to call out those who push selective empathy when it suits their political agenda. He was right.

In my country Australia, there's a backlash on self-destructive "empathy" decisions in criminal courts. Violent repeat offenders are granted bail or short sentences for violent crime, why? Because the judge empathises with their traumatised upbringing, for example when they come from a war-torn country. This pattern of "justice" has spiked crime rates including violent home invasions and stabbings.

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85. nptelj+VC1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 07:29:39
>>al_bor+6i1
It's not a loaded question in itself, as much as a direct question to counter the anti-lgbtq propaganda that is being pushed. This question didn't start a narrative, it is asked to point out that an existing narrative is intentionally misleading.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/transgender-mass-shootings...

>Even one mass shooting is too many.

This is a misrepresentation of the exchange. "Do you know how many are trans" "Too many" doesn't imply that there would be fewer mass shooting, it implies that the situation would be better if the same amount of mass shootings were happening, but the identities of the shooters would be different.

replies(1): >>lostms+TZ1
86. anigbr+3D1[view] [source] 2025-09-11 07:31:04
>>vik0+(OP)
You are wrong. As well as organizing a large conservative movement on college campuses, he organized a large chunk of financing for the January 6 2021 riots in DC, north of $1m. This report outlines the financial infrastructure, you'd have to delve into the investigative commission documents for testimony about how he raised the money, I can't remember the name of his wealthy benefactor offhand.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/...

Also an enthusiastic proponent of military force (against other Americans)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/charlie-kirk-calls-full-...

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87. tim333+8K1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 08:42:32
>>ourman+g71
I watched the start of the debate, having never heard of Charlie before the shooting. His position seemed fairly reasonable that women were happier with the get married and have kids model then the focus on your career one.
replies(4): >>dcuthb+h12 >>stickf+Dd2 >>amai+dy2 >>Mister+VT4
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88. lostms+TZ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 11:23:57
>>nptelj+VC1
It doesn't imply either. You are being too uncharitable with your interpretation.
replies(2): >>nptelj+6j2 >>johnny+Cz3
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89. akimbo+n02[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 11:28:37
>>Simula+s31
Not very relevant unless Kirk was also inside a moving car
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90. dcuthb+h12[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 11:35:50
>>tim333+8K1
> His position seemed fairly reasonable that women were happier with the get married and have kids model then the focus on you career one.

Broad statements like that are just plain wrong and aren't reasonable. Saying women were happier with the get married and have kids model denies the fact that all humans have different aspirations. Some want to be doctors, nurses, chefs, electricians, plumbers, or artists. Saying that women should get married and raise lots of children denies those aspirations, and says to me that those who ascribe to that model have no consideration for women as human beings. Let women pursue their own definition of happiness rather than prescribing one for them.

replies(2): >>tim333+K12 >>nailer+Lk2
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91. tim333+K12[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 11:39:26
>>dcuthb+h12
I'm not saying it's correct but it didn't seem unreasonable to debate it. I guess you might be comparing 1950s America to modern America.
replies(1): >>dcuthb+Pd2
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92. accoun+Y12[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 11:41:27
>>pjc50+1D
Mental illness does not imply the lack of any ability to plan things out.
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93. astura+032[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 11:49:26
>>ronces+Ks1
>non-podcaster

He had a podcast.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-charlie-kirk-show/...

replies(1): >>ronces+Bh6
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94. whacke+k92[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 12:38:12
>>vik0+d1
Neither am I!
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95. whacke+G92[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 12:41:08
>>qingch+qd1
I don't understand, you think there aren't enough trans shooters? Just the right amount!? Am I making the same mistake as you?
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96. whacke+Sa2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 12:50:00
>>pjc50+1D
I keep seeing this. Why do people keep making the point that if you can make an accurate shot from 200 yards with a rifle that makes you a sane person?
replies(2): >>drewbe+f83 >>johnny+pA3
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97. whacke+kb2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 12:52:20
>>kulaha+vI
Right. I think if you decide to kill someone you are, by definition, a nutcase.
replies(1): >>OkayPh+ZS2
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98. stickf+Dd2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 13:03:32
>>tim333+8K1
Whether or not that may be statistically true, it's offensive for a man to tell a woman what they'll be happier doing with their life. Not your choice.
replies(1): >>bartax+iK5
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99. dcuthb+Pd2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 13:04:25
>>tim333+K12
I'm not comparing anything to 1950s America. I am disagreeing with your assertion "His position seemed fairly reasonable ...". Kirk insinuated in the video that women in America would be happier if they had a belief in the divine and a lot of kids (which may correlate with beliefs from the 1950s, but that's besides the point) when he compared what women in America have to what women in sub-Saharan Africa have. That doesn't seem reasonable to me. (edited to fix a typo)
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100. nptelj+6j2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 13:33:32
>>lostms+TZ1
It's not an uncharitable interpretation, but a literal one. Even then, I can see a world where we could let it go, because people sometimes just misspeak, public setting or not.

But in this current case, the speaker's political background fits the interpretation perfectly, so I don't think that we need to explain it away.

replies(1): >>lostms+6m4
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101. nailer+pk2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 13:39:58
>>umvi+Mz
> I didn't really agree with his stances on immigration

I haven't heard him say anything about immigration in general, merely illegal immigration which (should be) the exception, and should be a matter of crime not a matter of 'pro or con'.

replies(1): >>thephy+Jw6
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102. nailer+Lk2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 13:41:39
>>dcuthb+h12
> Broad statements like that are just plain wrong and aren't reasonable. Saying women were happier with the get married and have kids model denies the fact that all humans have different aspirations.

No. They are right. When you survey people, most women are happier working for their children rather than their boss. Most women feeling that way doesn't preclude other women feeling differently. Not does it prescribing a definition of happiness for women that want to work for their boss.

replies(1): >>whamla+t83
103. Animal+Ok2[view] [source] 2025-09-11 13:41:56
>>vik0+(OP)
Paranoid time: Target him because he's notable for being willing to actually talk to the other side. Without people like him, all we have is people on both sides yelling at each other as hard as they can.

Why would someone target him? If they want more division. Maybe even if they want a civil war.

Who would want that? Maybe someone in government who wants disorder as an excuse to impose order by force. Maybe someone in Russia who wants a world order not let by America.

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104. rektom+0u2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 14:28:20
>>ceejay+y
> likely contributed to the Gen Z turnout that helped win in 2024

This is way over-estimated. There's a number of talking heads on the right that Gen Z listens to. For every Charlie Kirk, there's five others.

replies(1): >>ceejay+8I2
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105. amai+dy2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 14:53:09
>>tim333+8K1
Aren't man also happier when they are married and have kids? So according to that logic also man should stop focusing on their career and instead get married and have kids.
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106. disgru+OG2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 15:42:07
>>suppor+Bs
Not really, but they tend to be influential.
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107. ceejay+8I2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 15:49:18
>>rektom+0u2
I'm not sure how, but you've misread "likely contributed to" as "is solely responsible for".
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108. 1gn15+7S2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 16:47:21
>>pjc50+Ds
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Charlie_Kirk
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109. OkayPh+ZS2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 16:52:19
>>whacke+kb2
That stance would make every police station, military base, and legislature madhouses. Heck, we could expand that a step further, and declare everyone who voted for those politicians mad.

People decide to kill people all the time. People order others to kill people all the time. People advocate for others to order yet others to kill people all the time. Some violence is legitimate. Some violence is justified. Plenty of violence is neither. But to ignore the violence of the state as sanctified, while condemning all violence against it as madness results in an alarming ethical framework with abhorrent conclusions.

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110. drewbe+o73[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 18:22:34
>>qingch+qd1
"Too many" is kind of a hilarious answer. It implies that there's a good or right mix of demographics for mass shooters, and, to Charlie, that mix should include fewer trans people. "Mass shooters should be cisgendered!" is a logical reframe of his position and it's just, like … what are you even saying?
replies(1): >>qingch+FD3
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111. drewbe+f83[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 18:27:30
>>whacke+Sa2
People generally use really crude (and incorrect) heuristics when judging others. "He was a family man/good christian/nice to me at work/etc, I don't know how he could have murdered his family!" Mental illness gets it even worse b/c most people don't have any good framework for understanding it.
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112. whamla+t83[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 18:29:19
>>nailer+Lk2
Happiness is not a single metric you can use to determine what is best. The most rewarding lives are ones where you can sacrifice for something meaningful to you. Sacrificing to have a rewarding, independent life without children may not be the easiest life, but it’s definitely not an any way inferior to a “happier” one raising kids. Because of this, that statistic, even if accurate, doesn’t matter. And doesn’t suggest that anyone should go raise a family.
replies(1): >>nailer+Vt3
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113. nailer+Vt3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 20:48:20
>>whamla+t83
> Happiness is not a single metric you can use to determine what is best.

If you mean happiness is not the only metric, we're agreed.

> Sacrificing to have a rewarding, independent life without children ... is definitely not an any way inferior to a “happier” one raising kids.

In the way that it makes makes most people less happy, it is.

114. Rover2+Bw3[view] [source] 2025-09-11 21:10:12
>>vik0+(OP)
Like most of us, you're living in your own media bubble.
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115. johnny+Cz3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 21:31:51
>>lostms+TZ1
If you've every watched any of those person's footage, you'd know that there is no room for charitable interpretation.

Put another way, if he was a HN member he was definitely be banned.

replies(1): >>lostms+jP3
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116. johnny+pA3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 21:38:05
>>whacke+Sa2
We're mixing sanity with belligerency. Someone in the heat of passion doesn't plan out a 200m shot, alongside an escape route.

I think that's the mixup. You can be insane but still perform some very calculated plots.

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117. qingch+FD3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 22:02:36
>>drewbe+o73
I like this interpretation. The right is saying that being trans is a mental illness removing their right to bear arms. But what if they're simply saying that being trans should remove your right to be a mass shooter? That the right to be a mass shooter should be something that is reserved solely for cisgendered individuals?
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118. lostms+jP3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-11 23:49:55
>>johnny+Cz3
> If you've every watched any of those person's footage

Yes, that's exactly your problem. You built an image in your mind, and you interpret according to that image. If you built your image the same way you interpret this reply, well...

> was definitely be banned

HN banhammer has its own biases.

replies(1): >>nptelj+jC4
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119. tcmart+hf4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-12 05:32:22
>>garbth+L
I would say both are true. Kirk had the number 1 youth conservative movement. But, even with that, he isn't as well known as some people think because very few of the youth are engaged in politics. Most of the people I know who know of him are the terminally online YouTube politics watchers. Which is not a large group. I would say the same would be said of whoever the most influential leftist young political thinker is, maybe Hasan. They are big in a circle, but its not really a that big of a circle.
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120. lostms+6m4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-12 06:48:22
>>nptelj+6j2
It is most certainly not the literal interpretation.
replies(1): >>nptelj+GA4
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121. nptelj+GA4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-12 09:12:37
>>lostms+6m4
I agree, I misspoke. It's not the literal interpretation, it's the interpretation of what was being said, in the context of the speaker.
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122. nptelj+jC4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-12 09:25:01
>>lostms+jP3
They said they watched him speak. The image they built must be made of that footage then, no? How much closer do you want people to get to the source?
replies(1): >>lostms+WD5
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123. Mister+VT4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-12 12:31:05
>>tim333+8K1
His position was idiotic in his broader philosophical framework because his economic stance is that the poor should struggle and the rich should reap the benefits of their investments. It literally isn't possible to have a 1950s style familial relationship given his economic stances.
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124. LordDr+Bd5[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-12 14:38:28
>>al_bor+6i1
It might be a valid answer if he had not previously explicitly said that several deaths is not too many, the opposite of what you're implying he meant.

> "I think it’s worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational."

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125. lostms+WD5[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-12 17:09:14
>>nptelj+jC4
You don't. You don't bias interpretation like that at all.
replies(1): >>nptelj+ib8
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126. bartax+iK5[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-12 17:48:41
>>stickf+Dd2
You can tell a man that he should work less and focus more on his family to become happier. And it would be a very inoffensive statement.
127. native+zX5[view] [source] 2025-09-12 19:06:33
>>vik0+(OP)
He's being martyred on purpose. I wonder what people both sides-ing it on HN would do in the 1940s....
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128. ronces+Bh6[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-12 21:01:48
>>astura+032
Well who doesn't? I mean he didn't become famous because of his podcast.
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129. thephy+Jw6[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-12 22:50:34
>>nailer+pk2
He had a few ideas:

See the “On Immigration” section.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/11/charlie-kirk...

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130. thephy+gx6[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-12 22:55:55
>>JacobT+zu
There are also lots of Republicans and right wing media figures who wrongly identified Democrats as “at war with the right.

Mental illness isn’t the only explanation. When people are indoctrinated into stupidity and no longer believe in truth or reality, it’s possible to convince them to both believe “I support police / military” while attacking police officers (several of the worst offenders of Jan 6).

Perceived desperation is a better explainer than some generic mental illness.

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131. thephy+Mx6[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-12 23:02:27
>>kulaha+vI
It’s interesting that you used a vague term, not a DSM term.

Also, I would argue that it has more to do with mental framing than “being crazy”. Police and military leadership hire selectively and craft training to ensure that people aren’t mentally ill and still willing to kill.

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132. thephy+Sy6[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-12 23:11:40
>>paxys+aj
Arguably this is because of the reactions of Republicans, gaslighting us about CK’s actual beliefs, turning the temperature up (blaming Democrats, “this is war”, calling Democrats terrorists, likening it to the Reichstag Fire, and a Republican Congressman declaring that anyone making light of it should be cancelled permanently from social media / government / society).

I would argue CK was somewhat influential among getting lots of young Christians to vote for Trump, who clearly doesn’t live Christian beliefs, but the shooting is being catastrophized for political value.

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133. nptelj+ib8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-13 18:01:36
>>lostms+WD5
With politics, if you after the truth, you have to consider context. Coded / indirect speech is common, and it's also common to say an acceptable thing, while meaning an entirely different thing, aka dogwhistling (like "family values").
replies(1): >>lostms+Ci8
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134. lostms+Ci8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-13 19:05:13
>>nptelj+ib8
Don't you think this approach might be the reason for the extreme polarization of the politics in US? If one side demonizes the other based on "considering context".
replies(1): >>nptelj+Ct8
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135. nptelj+Ct8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-09-13 20:45:43
>>lostms+Ci8
I don't. What would be the alternative, believe the face value outright? That's not just a bad approach to politics, where everything is about controlling narratives, but a bad life advice in general. Or do I misunderstand what you mean?
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