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[parent] [thread] 35 comments
1. dathin+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-08-13 16:25:33
> The UK is quickly deploying surveillance state technology that people once decried China for.

they always had been or at least tried, for decades by now, the only thing which had been holding them back was the EU frequently being like "no wtf UK, that is against human rights, EU law, etc."

> Has society really become this dangerous that we must deploy these things?

no, and it also has a long track record of not only marginally improving your crime statistics. And especially stuff like facial recognition vans are most times not used to protect citizens but to create lists for who attended demos and similar. Which is most useful for suppressing/harassing your citizens instead of protecting them.

replies(4): >>JFingl+r6 >>_the_i+xM1 >>zosima+t82 >>graeme+Hd2
2. JFingl+r6[view] [source] 2025-08-13 16:57:54
>>dathin+(OP)
> EU frequently being like "no wtf UK, that is against human rights, EU law, etc."

And yet they are still pushing [0]

[0] https://edri.org/our-work/despite-warning-from-lawyers-eu-go...

replies(1): >>fao_+u81
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3. fao_+u81[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-13 23:00:17
>>JFingl+r6
It's almost like huge organizations built off the backs of many different parties working in tandem, will at times have contradictory aims.
replies(1): >>zosima+A82
4. _the_i+xM1[view] [source] 2025-08-14 06:36:11
>>dathin+(OP)
No, it is more like UK is now the new surveillance supermarket for EU: implementing what “works” for UK - trusted and applied technology.

And also the excuse included: “not China”, but even this doesn’t come as cause for concern anymore.

Have a look at the latest US “country report on human rights practices 2025”. Germany is flagged as unsafe so to say.

It is as you can only hope that the NSA has some way to spy on your data when EU gets more on more anti privacy and data protection means EU only storage is mandatory.

Dire times. Double standards are in full effect.

replies(2): >>Yokolo+SU1 >>nunodo+uV1
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5. Yokolo+SU1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 07:55:30
>>_the_i+xM1
Anything coming out of a US government institution today is not trustworthy. Not sure why you'd reference the 2025 report. It's a laugh and a half that the country deploying the national guard in their own capital and putting the capital's police under federal government control is saying Germany is unsafe. The country that's rounding up immigrants and even US citizens to be deported to random countries.

Please. Stop falling for the right-wing propaganda.

replies(1): >>fallen+542
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6. nunodo+uV1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 08:02:00
>>_the_i+xM1
sure, we will trust USA to talk about human rights.
replies(1): >>fallen+N32
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7. fallen+N32[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 09:22:57
>>nunodo+uV1
Don’t attack the messenger, attack the message.
replies(1): >>zumina+ie2
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8. fallen+542[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 09:26:12
>>Yokolo+SU1
Both things can be true at the same time, is not laughable at all.

Germany can be unsafe and US too to the extent they need national guard to get back control

replies(2): >>Xss3+av2 >>datame+oK2
9. zosima+t82[view] [source] 2025-08-14 10:13:08
>>dathin+(OP)
EU is on exactly the same road, just with a (tiny) delay.
replies(2): >>graeme+H92 >>permo-+Kc2
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10. zosima+A82[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 10:14:10
>>fao_+u81
In that case it would be nice to see any effort from EU against government surveillance.

Sure GDPR and what not, but they're full of loopholes for allowing government to do what private parties are not.

replies(3): >>ajsnig+n92 >>petre+x92 >>permo-+Xc2
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11. ajsnig+n92[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 10:26:09
>>zosima+A82
EU is trying to implemement chat control... again. That's their effort.

https://stopchatcontrol.eu/

It would be nice if we removed the security guards for politicans, and if they're not doing bad stuff, they have nothing to fear.

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12. petre+x92[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 10:28:03
>>zosima+A82
Certain EU citizens remeber the Stasi & friends. That's why Chat Control should be associated with the Stasi by anyone opposing it.
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13. graeme+H92[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 10:29:10
>>zosima+t82
and they will race ahead if they get chat control through.
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14. permo-+Kc2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 11:02:57
>>zosima+t82
except no, the EU has specifically outlawed facial recognition in public places
replies(1): >>zosima+zd2
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15. permo-+Xc2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 11:05:13
>>zosima+A82
the EU has literally banned facial recognition by law enforcement across the entire bloc.

HN has terrible EU Derangement Syndrome:

any time its mentioned here, suddenly there are tens of people lining up to blindly shit on it, usually for laws it hasn't actually passed, or literal anti-truths like your comment, despite the fact that it is consistently passing the best tech-focused laws of any major governmental body anywhere, and the proposed laws that everyone repeatedly loses their minds over have never once actually come to pass. even when they released the DMA and DSA, possibly the two most HN-friendly pieces of legislation of all time, half the comments were attempts at criticism, basically seemingly because people here just love to hate the EU, sans facts

replies(1): >>zosima+md2
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16. zosima+md2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 11:09:59
>>permo-+Xc2
> the EU has literally banned facial recognition by law enforcement across the entire bloc.

This is simply wrong:

They have banned _live_ facial recognition - and with exemptions such as e.g. for terrorism and other severe crimes, which is becoming quite broad.

They are allowing facial recognition when done after-the-fact for law enforcement. Probably also for petty crimes.

replies(1): >>permo-+nf2
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17. zosima+zd2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 11:11:46
>>permo-+Kc2
They have outlawed _live_ facial recognition in public places. And with exemptions such as e.g. terrorism, which I'm guessing is what UK is going to go for with protesters.
replies(1): >>permo-+qg2
18. graeme+Hd2[view] [source] 2025-08-14 11:12:34
>>dathin+(OP)
> was the EU frequently being like "no wtf UK, that is against human rights, EU law, etc."

The EU courts have sometimes been helpful, but the EU lawmakers have been atleast as bad as the UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive

As other comments have pointed out the EU has also pushed a lot of other privacy invasive legislation.

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19. zumina+ie2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 11:17:40
>>fallen+N32
A more applicable cliché might be,"Consider the source."
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20. permo-+nf2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 11:28:57
>>zosima+md2
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240308IP...

if you're going to change the central focus of your comment, do it in a reply not an edit

replies(1): >>zosima+Zh2
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21. permo-+qg2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 11:39:38
>>zosima+zd2
my friend, I'm sorry but this is simply a factual bridge too far. the EU has quite specifically brought out wide-ranging laws heavily restricting the very thing the UK is doing, plus a load of other very positive restrictions on the use of AI and biometrics in general, and yet your conclusion is that they're on the same path? it's like if I say I'm never going to eat meat except rare unavoidable occasions, and you think I'm en route to becoming the liver king. just admit you like criticising the EU and be done with it
replies(1): >>zosima+Ih2
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22. zosima+Ih2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 11:52:04
>>permo-+qg2
What is non-factual?

We have another token legislation from EU forbidding private parties to most anything, and carefully inserting loopholes for authorities and government to do as they please.

True, the restrictions on live facial recognition is a bit more severe for law enforcement than usual.

But: A. It's not something most people here care about a lot. Law enforcement are still allowed to use AI to create a file on every citizen. B. It gives them political points, because now people less-in-the-know will think that they are actually protecting privacy, which is again, not true.

replies(1): >>permo-+sl2
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23. zosima+Zh2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 11:54:07
>>permo-+nf2
I edited mine after you edited yours.

Here is an article about live/post facial recognition:

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ai-facial-recognition-tec...

replies(1): >>permo-+Nl2
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24. permo-+sl2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 12:21:10
>>zosima+Ih2
>forbidding private parties to most anything

well thank fuck for that! besides financial self-interest, why would you want private parties doing anything with AI and biometrics whatsoever? if anyone is to at all, it should be publicly accountable bodies that aren't operating based on a profit motive, but really it should be none at all!

>It gives them political points, because now people less-in-the-know will think that they are actually protecting privacy, which is again, not true.

this entire sentence stinks of "I just don't like the EU and I'm just going to criticise it no matter what". people in the know? people who have read the law specifically stating that facial recognition can only be used in severe, clearly-defined cases, with judicial approval, in highly time-limited windows? people who've read that if it is to be used post-hoc, it has to have judicial authorisation linked to a criminal offence. and you're saying that this in no way protects privacy?

the UK is rolling out AI police vans all over the country to try and recognise people they have on lists. no judicial approval is required, there's no time-limit, and as far as I'm aware there's no restriction on what crimes it's used for either. private companies are allowed to use it, obviously equally with no judicial approval

essentially mate, I think you need to have a good look at whether your opinions here are coming from "I genuinely think the EU's legislation is an issue here" or "I don't like the idea of the EU in general and I'm going to criticise anything it does"

replies(2): >>zosima+Zn2 >>pessim+Vp3
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25. permo-+Nl2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 12:23:16
>>zosima+Zh2
I edited mine to add additional observation, leaving the central focus the same. your edit entirely changed the meaning of your comment, changing the meaning of my reply
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26. zosima+Zn2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 12:39:28
>>permo-+sl2
I don't get this attitude. Private parties are me and you. I have many interests and ideas, and now many of those have been forbidden for no discernible reason, while the government is still allowed to spy on us to their hearts content.

I can't really begin to fathom how this is good.

replies(1): >>shmeee+g13
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27. Xss3+av2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 13:28:43
>>fallen+542
How can geemany be considered unsafe to the average american? The homicide and violent crime rate in the US is 10x higher than germany, even in the quiet and posh parts of the USA the murder rate is insanely high compared to anywhere in germany.
replies(1): >>nradov+OI3
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28. datame+oK2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 14:50:52
>>fallen+542
We don't need national guard in the capitol deployed. Completely fabricated claim that crime is out of control. Absolutely a move to gain power and create internal enemies to fight while a certain list of clients is being much discussed.
replies(1): >>junipe+9Q7
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29. shmeee+g13[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 16:07:21
>>zosima+Zn2
"Private parties" are _not_ me and you. _I_ can't begin to fathom how you come to believe you are, unless you consider yourself a temporarily embarrassed billionaire, held back from success only by all this legislative overreach.

"Private parties" are mighty multinational enterprises with essentially limitless pockets, entities whose factual power and political influence rivals most governments. Countries all over the world have been struggling to restrain them for the past decade in order to keep their sovereignty.

What exact "interests and ideas" do you have that would involve the necessity for public facial recognition? Because I, for one, don't want my biometric data in your system without my explicit consent.

replies(2): >>zosima+BG3 >>fc417f+tM3
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30. pessim+Vp3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 18:06:00
>>permo-+sl2
Please stop telling people what stuff "reads like" until after you go over what they actually said. And never say something "reads like" anything akin to "you sound like a hater."

Or at least just say that straight instead of surrounding it with empty verbiage. The overwhelming proportion of people all over the world don't care about the EU until it does a horrible (or a good) thing, and then they care about the thing it did and why it might have done it. It's not their ex-boyfriend.

People are trying to figure out why it's run by crazy people now, and they blame this on the fact that it is largely an undemocratic organization run by extreme multi-generational elites with a quickly lowering opinion on human rights, freedom of speech and the importance of peace. This is not personal. The EU is not a person.

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31. zosima+BG3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 19:39:24
>>shmeee+g13
The beautifully named 32024R1689, aka AI Act, prohibits a lot of random stuff. It definitely makes many AI efforts into a legal minefield. It does not just cover live facial recognition in public spaces, which I personally could live without.

"Private parties" refer to non-governmental entities, such as individuals or businesses. You may be acting on a governments behalf, but I am not.

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32. nradov+OI3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 19:50:09
>>Xss3+av2
Nonsense. The murder rate in most of the USA is similar to Germany. My small city has literally zero murders most years. The vast majority of violent crime happens in few cities such as St. Louis, Baltimore, Chicago, and Washington DC. And then it's only in a handful of neighborhoods within those cities. We should fix those places but basic safety isn't something that most Americans have to worry about.
replies(1): >>Xss3+YW7
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33. fc417f+tM3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-14 20:08:12
>>shmeee+g13
Private parties are quite literally me and you in addition to large multinational corporations. If you think large multinationals need to be restricted then just say that directly instead of putting forward nonsensical semantic arguments.

> I, for one, don't want my biometric data in your system without my explicit consent.

If it's a single individual watching (for example) the sidewalk in front of his house and not disseminating the data in any way then what does it matter? Where is the potential downside? There are plenty of neighborhoods with at least a few retirees sitting staring out the front window for multiple hours each day.

As far as I can tell in the vast majority of cases surveillance only becomes problematic when both ubiquitous and centralized.

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34. junipe+9Q7[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-16 06:09:52
>>datame+oK2
the murder rate in American cities is out of control. Maybe Americans are blind to this, but there are 274 murders in DC alone in 2023. In ALL of Germany, there were something like 600 murders in 2023. DC has 730,000 people living there. Germany has 83 million people. What do you mean that DC doesnt have a crisis going on? The homicide rate is 4,500% higher than Germany, lol.
replies(1): >>datame+3s9
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35. Xss3+YW7[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-16 07:28:29
>>nradov+OI3
I think you should look up the stats instead of going based on vibes.
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36. datame+3s9[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-16 20:55:16
>>junipe+9Q7
I define "in control" as dropping for the last 30 years
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