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Financial lessons from my family's experience with long-term care insurance

submitted by wallfl+(OP) on 2025-08-02 14:00:28 | 175 points 201 comments
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28. WarOnP+Hr[view] [source] 2025-08-02 17:20:20
>>wallfl+(OP)
My youngest and I were discussing how removing zoning barriers to ADU (in-law suites) can be a big win for families and small win for housing in general.

In short, build an efficiency apartment on family property for an alone-living relative. Family can better provide support; the relative's residence goes back into the housing supply.

The municipality provides usual construction inspections but doesn't prevent the construction for non-pragmatic reasons.

ref: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=zoning+to+allow+ADU%2C+in-law...

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29. toomuc+1s[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-02 17:22:14
>>bradle+3p
But growth is also going to slow due to demographics, and this is unavoidable. Are we going to prioritize caring for humans? Or line goes up? Because line goes up is going to hit the demographic wall eventually.

https://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/our-research/dependency-and-dep...

https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/spring/summer-2018/demogra...

https://www.cato.org/commentary/clear-eyed-look-our-demograp...

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jesusfv/Slides_London.pdf

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88. Alive-+5Z[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-02 21:08:26
>>SpicyL+2S
Also the us Congress is blocked by the senate needing 60 votes/supporters to reach cloture on every single bill, except the once per year thing that got the bbb passed. So it's very easy to block the other side. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_...
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92. votepa+X31[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-02 21:38:24
>>k4shm0+6O
The 60th vote was Ted Kennedy who died in office and a Republican was elected to fill the seat, forcing passage of an earlier bill.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_Senate_sp...

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115. A_D_E_+Pd1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-02 22:56:12
>>llbbdd+C91
The public system in Hong Kong doesn't really cost anything. It's not that you get costs "waived" if you whine hard enough that you ought to be a charity case (which, by the way, is degrading,) and it's not that costs are passed on to a middleman. Medical treatment is transparently priced and simply inexpensive -- so it's simply not a cause of bankruptcy in Hong Kong, whereas, in the US...

> https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/medical-b...

Also, perhaps because it's a lot more laissez faire, the private system in Hong Kong is almost unimaginably superior to the private system in the US. It's far cheaper because pricing is transparent and most people pay cash! (Cutting out that middleman.) It's higher quality because there's a lot more competition, rather than collusion among a few major providers.

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147. refurb+qC1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-03 03:45:37
>>elgeni+r21
Where did you get that number from? It doesn't even pass the sniff test.

17% of GDP is spent on healthcare. Claiming 60% of that is just "middleman overhead" makes no sense when the highest European countries spend 70% of what the US spends on healthcare.

If you want an actual analysis of why US healthcare costs are higher, I'd recommend the McKinsey study that compared category spending vs OECD countries. Exhibit 2 on page 4.

https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mckinsey/dotcom/client_serv...

Administrative costs are way higher in the US, but it only accounts for 15% of the higher cost.

The biggest driver is outpatient care - Americans get way more healthcare and it costs more (quantity * price).

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150. qwerpy+XE1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-03 04:27:28
>>Silver+nC1
It's an income tax in all but name because your income is taxed a certain percentage in order to fund the benefit.

There was a brief window where you could get LTC insurance from any provider and use it to opt out of the tax. High income earners did that because it was cheaper than paying the tax and also because receiving the benefit required you to stay in WA. The opt-out window has since closed, and if you haven't opted out by now, you will forever pay that tax if you work in WA.

https://wacaresfund.wa.gov/how-it-works

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166. Scound+gy2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-03 16:08:00
>>squigz+OV
The studies I’ve seen that say months or a small number of years specially look at older adult admissions, so may exclude a lot of dementia patients.

US study:

> The mean age of decedents was 83.3 (SD 9.0) and the majority were female (59.12%), and White (81.5%). Median and mean length of stay prior to death were 5 months (IQR 1-20) and 13.7 months (SD 18.4), respectively. Fifty-three percent died within 6 months of placement. Large differences in median length of stay were observed by gender (men, 3 months vs. women, 8 months) and net worth (highest quartile, 3 months vs. lowest quartile, 9 months) (all p<.001). These differences persisted after adjustment for age, sex, marital status, net worth, geographic region, and diagnosed chronic conditions (cancer, hypertension, diabetes, lung disease, heart disease, and stroke).

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2945440/

Danish Study:

> The median survival after nursing home admission was 25.8 months, with the 3-year survival being 37%.

https://academic.oup.com/ageing/article/49/1/67/5639744

Tbh, there’s a lot of data on this because it’s easy to measure.

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178. dehrma+Ia3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-03 21:17:22
>>wat100+6o1
My person pet peeve for insurance is dental insurance. Here's what Delta Dental offers for its own employees:

https://www1.deltadentalins.com/content/dam/ddins/en/pdf/car...

If you get the PPO, you have an in-network annual benefit cap of $2,500. So you're paying your insurance company to pay your dentist for you? And as soon as the bill gets large enough that you'd actually need insurance, they tap out?

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182. nly+2p3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-03 23:40:01
>>silisi+lP
To be fair, the NHS is the largest employer is the UK as well

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_United_Kingdom...

Keeping people healthy is labour intensive.

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197. zackmo+HM8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-05 17:43:12
>>drstew+BI
Sorry for my late reply.

I believe that the US healthcare crisis started in 1973 when Nixon signed the HMO Act, which had the effect of tying health insurance to employment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Maintenance_Organizatio...

The alternative would have been some kind of single-payer option where US tax dollars would fun Medicare and/or Medicaid for all. Here is an explanation I found:

https://medicaiddirectors.org/resource/understanding-managed...

This differs from a public option, which would be a generic insurance offered by the government at a substantial savings over private:

https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/2019/07/why-a-public-opt...

A public option likely would be 20-50% less expensive than private due to the 80/20 rule and the fact the European healthcare is about 1/2 the cost of US healthcare, so a current $400/month plan might be $200-320/month:

https://www.aeaweb.org/research/regulating-health-insurers-a...

https://nashbio.com/blog/healthcare/the-healthcare-divide-pr...

Unfortunately Obamacare (Romneycare) forced everyone to get insurance or face a tax penalty mandate, which was lifted by Trump in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017:

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/resources/affordable-care-a...

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Knowing these facts, what's really going on? Two things:

* Obamacare did little to address the natural monopoly aspect of healthcare, so costs exploded

* Republican concerns about government overreach into our private lives (knowing our info and determining who receives care) and negative impacts on private health industries have not been heard

Natural monopolies are things that everyone needs, such as water, sewer, trash, electricity, education, healthcare, etc:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly

Meaning that eventually running a capitalist system results in 1 or 2 companies controlling the entire market and charging whatever they wish, since high cost of entry prevents competition. Without competition, there is no supply and demand curve to counteract price increases. In other words, whoever controls the water can sell it at any price. Or insulin, or Epipens, or Hepatitis C treatments.

The only way to bring costs down on a natural monopoly is through regulation. Society chooses which firm(s) will supply the good or service, and how much it will cost. Overages are paid through subsidies, which can be high, but are at least under public review, unlike when private industry controls a market.

These are the reasons why healthcare got so expensive. But the meaning behind it, that's more nuanced.

The US is very into individual responsibility. Our belief is that a strong citizenry ensures a strong nation. Because we defeated not just fascism in WWII, but the rise of socialism and communism during the Cold War. Our privately funded athletes beat state-funded athletes in the Olympics. Our private industry runs more efficiently than (for example) national construction projects in Russia and China which built cities that nobody lives in. We have our own pork barrel projects, but they tend to be limited by public scrutiny, unlike in communist nations.

The US is also very into privacy. We have medical privacy laws like HIPAA which may not exist with state-funded medical care. Now, this is a half-truth, because Europe has arguably the same or better privacy than we do. Because there is little incentive to sell medical information there, unlike here.

What it really comes down to is that people who are used to paying through the nose for US health insurance after a lifetime of hard work aren't ready to see others receive it for free through the government. They don't want someone determining how long they have to wait for care, or if they receive it at all. They perceive government red tape as making health providers even more expensive or putting them out of business. As in, why would doctors go to medical school merely to be paid little more than teachers and other public servants? Yes, privacy may be impacted with single-payer. But in the US, the answer is usually about $$$.

Sadly, this debate has resulted in the lose-lose we see today: rising costs with no backstop, and threatened privacy due to regulatory capture by health companies which have misaligned incentives and are too big to fail.

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My solution to this political impasse would be a gradual transition to single-payer healthcare (probably Medicare for All) on an opt-in basis, either at the state or individual level. Knowing that taxpayers who opt in may pay a higher rate for a time to supplement those on private insurance. Until enough people are in the single-payer system that it becomes self-evidently better and the majority switch to it. Similar to private school vouchers, except going the other direction: public healthcare vouchers.

People could still buy private insurance to supplement Medicare for All and go to the front of the line. I don't like it, because I believe that healthcare is a human right that shouldn't depend on money, but this is America. If someone has the money to pay doctors overtime, then it probably makes little economic sense to stop them.

Medical research should go back to the previous university/publicly funded model. So grants would be available for companies pursuing billion dollar cures for cancer and other diseases which diminish quality of life or its duration. Then medications would be sold at close to wholesale price. This eliminates the current problems where pharmaceutical companies sell treatments instead of cures, that tend to start out very expensive.

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Sorry this got so long. I believe that you'd receive a similar summary from an LLM, and that without this context, a debate would fall into dogmatic attacks that lead nowhere.

Edit: fixed small typos.

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