zlacker

This is a macOS bug; it doesn’t need an IP address while it’s asleep. Waking up to renew a DHCP lease is crazy.

Closed source OSes are such a bane.

>>sneak+(OP)
That’s a little obtuse. Macs can still poll for certain messages while they’re asleep (Power Nap.)

>>sneak+(OP)
> This is a macOS bug; it doesn’t need an IP address while it’s asleep. Waking up to renew a DHCP lease is crazy.

It's actually not. As a user I'd expect the device to wake up and still have the same IP address via a continuation of the lease.

Yes, the correct way would be a longer lived DHCP lease, but el-cheapo ISP routers often lock down such settings.

>>mschus+Y
This is a good point (running processes might break if the IP address suddenly changed after wake-up). However, why should the renewal process take on the order of 15 minutes? And why would it require a complete wake up?

>>mschus+Y
Interesting, as a different user, I'd expect the opposite: If my computer is "asleep" I don't expect it to do anything, and it shouldn't be able to wake itself up.

>>ryandr+y6
that's called "off".

>>sneak+(OP)
Macs doesn't need to wake completely to renew their DHCP leases. Bluetooth and Wi-Fi radios can act independently and on their own for this low level operations.

On the other hand, I don't consider my computer to wake up, take a backup, check system/app updates and my mails and handle those while I'm sleeping as a feature, not a bug.

>>evan_+18
i suppose we have come to expect 4 states: - off: no power, no activity - hibernate: no power, no activity session state saved to non-volatile storage - sleep: Minimal power, RAM remains powered with the session state, can be resumed quickly - on

now we essentially have sleep++ and no option to set it back to vanilla sleep.

>>ryandr+y6
The definition of waking itself up is unclear. Surely you expect clicking on your mouse or typing in the keyboard wakes it up? That means USB events or Bluetooth can wake your computer. Still it's user-triggered and doesn't count as waking itself up. And I expect that initiating an SSH connection to that computer causes it to wake up, because I initiated that SSH connection; so it doesn't count as waking itself up. I further configured my computer to back up to my NAS every day at midnight. Since I configured it myself I expect it to wake up on a timer and it still doesn't count as waking itself up.

>>evan_+18
Turning a machine off loses any existing application state, and requires both applications and the OS to be re-launched.

When I put a machine into standby, I want it to go in a standby state, and then stay there until I explicitly wake it -- not keep doing whatever background tasks the OS developers, app developers, or whatever other third parties think they need to keep doing.

>>mschus+Y
> As a user I'd expect the device to wake up and still have the same IP address via a continuation of the lease.

Most users don't know what IP addresses even are, let alone care what theirs is. I don't think Apple is (or should be) optimizing for you.

>>kelnos+2F
Okay, then… As a user I’d expect the device not to waste any time connecting to my wireless network and getting a dhcp lease, instead being already connected when I open the lid.

>>scarby+jg
You do have that option, it's just not the defaut.

For most people these days the primary device is their phone, and so that is the model that modern laptops are trying to follow, as that is what most users will expect.

>>bayind+jd
That is pre-Apple Silicon, before together integration of software and wakeups.

I can see a continuously renewed DHCP lease — with nothing else - useful for reducing the time to reconnected to your network, esp maybe on old/slow networks or routers.

You can Touch ID and get back in a second, and maybe for 5-10% of users, it was resulting in initial network connection slowdowns or errors with buggy online-only apps.

Find My (your device wants to maintain a connection if you have it enabled) is another reason. It must regularly connect (perhaps a long running socket), and I want to be able to remotely lock and wipe my device at any time possible, for example.

>>dannyw+WZ1
> That is pre-Apple Silicon, before together integration of software and wakeups.

My 2014 Intel MacBook Pro has Power Nap and behaves the same when it comes to radios when compared to my M1. It's not new.

> it was resulting in initial network connection slowdowns or errors with buggy online-only apps.

Just because your radio is up, connected to the AP and keeping L2 active doesn't mean your processor/OS is keeping TCP connections up, or even talked to the hardware and updated itself. It's normal.

Find My doesn't keep a connection open 24/7. It pulls the commands the moment system wakes up. I have it enabled and check my devices sometimes, and it's not extraordinary to see "15 minutes ago" or "2 hours ago" for a laptop sitting on the table, not connected to power and its lid closed.

>>scarby+jg
Those are the states I expect, indeed, but lately I find them increasingly unreliable. I've had Windows unable to sleep, Linux crashing after hibernating, MacOS issues are addressed aplenty here.

I thought this was a solved issue. How are all OSs suddenly so bad at this? I only really trust on and off anymore.

>>theevi+gu
Btw, what’s the functionality which needs this half sleep state with running WiFi and Bluetooth? Laptops worked for decades without this, and I’ve never felt the need to change this. It caused headache for me too many times, and I don’t even know why I would need this.