zlacker

[parent] [thread] 49 comments
1. 1dom+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-05-28 15:20:45
I read the title and it triggered something I've been thinking a lot lately: there's too much for everyone to care about right now. Article didn't really touch on it directly, but:

> something that sounded like every other thing: some dude talking to some other dude about apps that some third dude would half-listen-to at 2x speed while texting a fourth dude about plans for later.

It's not that the dudes don't care, it's that the dudes have 15 other things expected of them, which weren't expected 15 years ago and caring capacity feels like a biological limit. There isn't the required amount of caring available in the average human any more, and caring is needed for standards to be maintained.

15 years ago, the world was in awe that stuxnet, a cyber attack, had impacted the real world. I was in cyber at the time, and the idea that day to day lives of normal people would be impacted in the real world was like Hollywood fiction: unthinkable.

A few weeks ago, I didn't even notice the reason my local big brand store shelves were empty was because of a cyberattack. It was a week later I saw the article explaining it on BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg4zrpk5p7o

I feel like a cynical old man, but I'm sure most here will relate - the age of tech we are living in now is not the one any of us thought we were working to create.

replies(13): >>Night_+L3 >>jasmin+O5 >>Nifty3+Sd >>nthing+we >>nyarla+Qh >>colech+Oj >>bakuni+Sl >>JKCalh+Gu >>oooyay+Nu >>lepton+My >>groby_+0A >>bowsam+uA >>xnx+G1f
2. Night_+L3[view] [source] 2025-05-28 15:39:40
>>1dom+(OP)
>It's not that the dudes don't care, it's that the dudes have 15 other things expected of them, which weren't expected 15 years ago and caring capacity feels like a biological limit

I genuinely think this is a factor in some ways. 500 years ago, what were people worried about? Their immediate concerns, those of family, and neighbors. Realistically, there was no way to get caught up in the minute-by-minute concerns of people in other cities, other states, other countries, other continents. Things changed more slowly and the only time you heard about about a tragedy was if it was truly enormous - or very local.

Now, there is this constant vying for attention/support/outrage/etc. It's exhausting. People genuinely expect you to care about the back-and-forth between two celebrities you've never met, or some event halfway across the world, or some new thing that released now like literally now.

I think that a lot of people have subconsciously hit their limit. They can't muster the energy needed to genuinely think about or care about a lot of this stuff because they're bombarded with so much of it. And over time, I think that shifts thinking. "Why did I not care when X happened?" leads to "Those people don't matter/are less than human" instead of the real "Because I'm completely exhausted from so much happening".

replies(5): >>fragme+e8 >>alabas+k9 >>icelan+6g >>smokel+jr >>hadloc+Hu
3. jasmin+O5[view] [source] 2025-05-28 15:49:59
>>1dom+(OP)
This hits harder than I expected. There’s a bleak kind of irony in how tech gave us infinite visibility but shredded our ability to process any of it. Stuxnet was a wake-up call. Now it’s just another push alert we swipe past while ordering oat milk.

The caring bandwidth’s not just saturated—it’s been monetized, splintered, and stuffed with things designed to trigger micro-concern at scale. You’re not a cynical old man. You’re just sober in a system that treats numbness like adaptation.

The worst part? I’m not even surprised the BBC article didn’t trend.

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4. fragme+e8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 16:01:43
>>Night_+L3
> People genuinely expect you to care about the back-and-forth between two celebrities you've never met

Maybe this is some unknown privilege of mine or some bubble I live in, but I only know about celebrity gossip when people ask me if I've heard about it and I say no, or not really. You get to choose what to give your attention to, and you don't have to just because other people expect you to. I still have friends and acquaintances, we just talk about other stuff.

replies(1): >>kmacdo+Ci
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5. alabas+k9[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 16:08:26
>>Night_+L3
I think a lot of harm has been caused by "automation" actually meaning "distributing parts of the same tasks among a bunch of people". As far as I can tell that's one of the main outcomes of "efficiencies" from computerization of offices, among other places: they mostly just made it feasible to carve up the job of e.g. secretary among everybody, adding to the number of things and processes each worker has to understand and deal with.
replies(2): >>phkahl+Oh >>ranpri+iv
6. Nifty3+Sd[view] [source] 2025-05-28 16:38:22
>>1dom+(OP)
Yes, and also there's no sense of proportion as we are being asked to care about every single possible thing. There's only one volume setting for everything: 11.

It's exhausting.

replies(1): >>jmye+hz
7. nthing+we[view] [source] 2025-05-28 16:42:01
>>1dom+(OP)
This is why Institutions are important. They should be truthful and unbiased and undogmatic. But given intentional pollution of information environment. The same lessons being learnt again and again. New generations growing up and trying to navigate this new polluted environment, all of this is taking a toll. Hence delulu is the solulu.
replies(1): >>zdragn+tf
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8. zdragn+tf[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 16:46:21
>>nthing+we
You're asking for more from the institution than we can ever expect from the individuals within the institution. Humans are fallible.

Rather, we should expect that institutions are never so powerful that we have no recourse when we have been wronged by one, and that we have options when one lets us down.

replies(1): >>nthing+Ng
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9. icelan+6g[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 16:48:42
>>Night_+L3
People are expected to care about things they have zero control over and have ~zero impact on their lives or their family's lives.

It's ridiculous. I get a ton of crap for not reading the news or caring about stuff happening 3500 miles away that I can't do anything about.

replies(4): >>cafard+Ih >>david-+Ei >>cjohns+Lp >>zh3+mx
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10. nthing+Ng[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 16:51:55
>>zdragn+tf
The problem isn't being wrong one time. But being wrong time and again and that too intentionally. When your job depends on not understanding...you won't understand.
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11. cafard+Ih[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 16:56:17
>>icelan+6g
An archduke shot in Bosnia, or an incident near a bridge in northern China?
replies(4): >>numb7r+Gl >>dsego+1q >>mieubr+9q >>icelan+wu
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12. phkahl+Oh[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 16:56:39
>>alabas+k9
>> they mostly just made it feasible to carve up the job of e.g. secretary among everybody, adding to the number of things and processes each worker has to understand and deal with.

A previous generations old guy told me about this. He worked in the defense industry 50 years ago. You know, they had secretaries or admins that would handle all sorts of things for the engineers. Then the government changed the way they did contracts and companies couldn't bill for "overhead" any more. So the engineers (who bill to the project) had to start handling all those other things themselves and most of the support staff went away.

It's not that hard to handle any one thing, but if you do get the chance to work somewhere with a person that can "just handle that for you" it's really kind of amazing how much mental energy that frees up for your main tasks.

replies(1): >>Henchm+Hj
13. nyarla+Qh[view] [source] 2025-05-28 16:56:41
>>1dom+(OP)
> the age of tech we are living in now is not the one any of us thought we were working to create

The emergence of the smartphone and The Internet (as a cultural phenomenon) was such an exciting time.

I came of age during the dawn of the smartphone (graduated right as the iPhone was released) and watched all of these nascent markets emerge, connecting people in exciting and novel ways.

Seemed like it went downhill so fast.

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14. kmacdo+Ci[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 17:00:46
>>fragme+e8
I similarly don't have those specific expectations, but plenty of others. I'm expected to understand the most recent updates in Gaza, and the latest DOGE cuts. People act smug when I don't have a good understanding of current medical theory on cholesterol. I'm expected to have a nuanced opinion on trans kids in sports despite having no kids, and knowing exactly zero trans people. I mean I generally believe in letting people be who they are, but beyond that I really have no business talking about it.
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15. david-+Ei[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 17:00:54
>>icelan+6g
Yeah, it's not that we don't care, or that it doesn't affect us directly, it's the complete lack of agency that makes us disinterested. Why focus our attention on the million things that we can do nothing about, when we could focus instead on the very few things where we can make a difference?

There are plenty of people out there who live their lives rarely watching the news, or browsing social media, and it is really hard to make an argument that their lives are any worse.

replies(1): >>lolind+lm
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16. Henchm+Hj[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 17:07:39
>>phkahl+Oh
You’re describing the change from personnel to human resources. Its this little linguistic trick the C-suite foisted on the rest of us. You dehumanize then exploit. Resources, after all, are meant to be exploited.
replies(1): >>lotsof+AD
17. colech+Oj[view] [source] 2025-05-28 17:08:17
>>1dom+(OP)
>It's not that the dudes don't care

Nope, I don't care.

Everything is garbage filler vying to buy my attention for some purpose or another and I expect bullshit from everyone. I am generally outraged, but for specific instances of bullshit? Not at all, those are expected. It's not desensitization, you just can't have less than 0 trust in an entity and once you get there specific instances of outrage no longer happen.

The major reason I think tiktok is so successful is it is the platform for punishing BS. You've got 3 seconds to get to the point and if you don't, you don't have attention. People complain about modern tech ruining attention span but I think it's the opposite, traditional content sold out to become ever less worthy of people's attention so people used tech to circumvent it.

replies(1): >>mieubr+Mq
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18. numb7r+Gl[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 17:18:53
>>cafard+Ih
This is a good point, but the average person is unlikely to hear about a skirmish on a different continent, and then know they should start stocking up on tinned food and bottled water. The problem is with the volume of information. It's impossible to take all of it in, so you need to pick and choose, and stay within your own limits. Some people might have the capacity read a whole newspaper's worth a day, others can only manage the local headlines.
19. bakuni+Sl[view] [source] 2025-05-28 17:19:35
>>1dom+(OP)
My initial reaction was to be rather dismissive as to AI being the thing to care about, but rather the rise of fascism and authoritarianism across the West - rather clearly proving your point. I do truly believe that AI will be bad for some people (myself included to a degree), but it is far less dangerous than the political shift we are feeling.

But it is true that we are supposed to feel strongly about a myriad things. And possibly more damaging, we are supposed to be a dozen things as well - rich, career-minded, pretty, athletic, spiritually centered, vegan, environmentally-conscious, politically educated, a model partner, there-for-our-children, well-travelled, financially responsible, and so much more... Each of these points is individually good, but social pressure mainly enforced through social media is turning the good life into a sort of whack-a-mole challenge people get burnt out on.

replies(1): >>chasd0+qz
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20. lolind+lm[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 17:21:26
>>david-+Ei
The argument is rarely that their lives are worse, it's that they're somehow making other people's lives worse by not paying attention to X, Y, or Z injustice. But even that argument doesn't really hold water.

I know people who are so incapacitated by their anger, frustration, and sadness about the Gaza war that they spiral into depression and are incapable of making any impact on the world directly around them. In their own words, they say that they have a hard time seeing how anything they do locally really matters when such terrible things are happening elsewhere. Their excessive amount of care about things outside of their control has actively hampered their ability to care about things that they actually can influence.

replies(1): >>catlik+sB
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21. cjohns+Lp[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 17:37:56
>>icelan+6g
On top of the things that we have zero control over, that do have an impact on our lives. DEI outrage killed a Girls in Tech summer program at our local children's museum. Similar cuts killed a lot of kids summer programs at our local library. Fewer summer programs at the public library and other institutions means thousands of extra dollars in extra camps we have to find and pay for over the summer so that we can sort of work during the day, between drop-offs and pick-ups.
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22. dsego+1q[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 17:39:25
>>cafard+Ih
There is a great netflix documentary made in 2018 called "the long road to war". By the time the shooting happened a lot of other pieces had fallen into place. Basically, there were people in military circles and in the government that dictated the geoplitics game based on which country has leverage, who has the train tracks or a port to handle the logistics of war, and there was a certain zeitgeist, an egregore if you will, and things were ripe for conflict.
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23. mieubr+9q[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 17:39:50
>>cafard+Ih
I think the problem is signal-to-noise. For every thing that actually turns out to matter, there are hundreds of thousands of things that you're told are Important but turn out not to be. It's basically impossible to filter "Which remote events are actually important vs just ragebait?" until after the fact.
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24. mieubr+Mq[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 17:42:54
>>colech+Oj
I'm not sure if I'm convinced, but I find this perspective very interesting to think about - that Tiktok might actually be about finding signal in the noise. My objection is around whether "getting the point" really means "getting to the most dopamine-producing thing" (which can still be bullshit).
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25. smokel+jr[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 17:46:14
>>Night_+L3
> 500 years ago, what were people worried about?

It wasn't so much different from our time. Read "Don Quixote" [1] and be amazed.

Whether the updates you read are actually playing out live, or happening in a book doesn't make much of a difference, unless you are actually influencing events.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote

replies(1): >>Night_+Ax
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26. icelan+wu[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 18:03:36
>>cafard+Ih
Both things I can do nothing about.
replies(1): >>int_19+i52
27. JKCalh+Gu[view] [source] 2025-05-28 18:04:18
>>1dom+(OP)
> the age of tech we are living in now is not the one any of us thought we were working to create

"No one would have designed it this way," is the refrain that comes to my mind so often. Raising kids and realizing the amount of "institutional knowledge" you need just to have a bank account (for example) underscores this thought (and refrain) frequently.

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28. hadloc+Hu[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 18:04:19
>>Night_+L3
Another way to look at this is, "millenials have kids/lives now and don't have the bandwidth to be rage-baited near-constantly" and also "Gen Z grew up in the rage baiting era, they're immune by default". There's no policy outcome for this particular piece of rage bait so very few people are going to suit up and white knight about supplemental ai slop. If it were a fake front page news article people might care more. Getting mad about people not getting mad is also very low tier rage-bait.
29. oooyay+Nu[view] [source] 2025-05-28 18:05:08
>>1dom+(OP)
I agree with you to some degree. When I got to the bottom of the article I read this:

> Be yourself.

> Be imperfect.

> Be human.

> Care.

It sounds like a simple message but the 2010's were rife with "care about everything" and "inaction is action" type slogans. Should someone at that paper or the products being represented care? Yes, because it's their job. To blame the reader or anyone beyond that point I think is very 2010's era that yielded some portion of this societal apathy and burnout.

What we need is the people who have a duty to care to care. In reality there are very few people who are on paper duty bound to care. The people that are duty bound are rarely held accountable when they don't. It's a sort of cyclical problem.

replies(1): >>1dom+nL
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30. ranpri+iv[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 18:08:06
>>alabas+k9
"Efficiency" is selfishness. It's a word for when people in power want to give less and get more.
replies(1): >>eriker+DJ
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31. zh3+mx[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 18:23:02
>>icelan+6g
But you can. Out of the (limited) choices, vote for whoever you think is most in tune with how you'd like the world to be.

If almost no-one votes because they think it won't change anything, the few people who do care enough to vote get to say who's elected.

replies(1): >>icelan+kP
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32. Night_+Ax[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 18:24:46
>>smokel+jr
I think there is a difference in the shear density and speed of information. With modern news and social media apps, information can be pushed into someone in a way that just wasn't possible that long ago.
replies(2): >>1dom+iF >>smokel+IR1
33. lepton+My[view] [source] 2025-05-28 18:31:58
>>1dom+(OP)
>15 years ago, the world was in awe that stuxnet, a cyber attack, had impacted the real world. I was in cyber at the time, and the idea that day to day lives of normal people would be impacted in the real world was like Hollywood fiction: unthinkable.

Stuxnet did not impact any "normal people" at all. It was very explicitly targeted at the Iran nuclear program. I'd bet that most "normal people" have never even heard of "stuxnet" or know if it had any impact at all in their lives. I know plenty of "normal" people and I'd be hard pressed to find a single one of them that even know what stuxnet was. Outside of people very interested in computers and cyber attacks, very few people could tell you what stuxnet was.

Maybe if Iran had been able to create a nuclear bomb, and maybe if they had actually tried to use it (which would be extremely foolish and would destroy Iran) then maybe the hypothetical non-existence of stuxnet would have impacted some lives, but that's a big IF. Most people have no clue at all.

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34. jmye+hz[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 18:34:31
>>Nifty3+Sd
So… turn it off. Social media is 99% of the firehose, and people adamantly refuse to do anything about it.

There’s no reason anyone needs the minute-by-minute Twitter-esque “information” feed, just like 24-hour news stations are a laughably idiotic waste of time and attention. There’s no reason “you” need to spend hours refreshing and obsessing about where your 6th-degree ‘friend’ is on vacation, or their promotion, or their new car or whatever.

Turn shit off.

Or drown, I guess.

replies(1): >>testin+gD
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35. chasd0+qz[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 18:35:11
>>bakuni+Sl
A clever trick by BigOutrage was labeling people choosing not to engage as part of the enemy de jour. now, not having enough information and choosing to not participate in the debate puts you firmly in their bad guy territory.
36. groby_+0A[view] [source] 2025-05-28 18:38:22
>>1dom+(OP)
Let's be clear, it's not just the age of tech.

It's been normalized to offload things to the recipients, because it reduces cost. Be it self-checkout, be it governments and large corporate entities doing the absolute minimum and asking you to jump through endless hoops to achieve something.

We're shaving off costs everywhere, without eliminating the need to do that work. And so it travels down to the leaf nodes, to individuals. Who cares, quarterly results are up, OpEx is down, good times.

Tech has enabled some of these things, but ultimately it's the fetishization of Taylorism that got us here. If you can't measure it, it's not worth doing, and not doing it saves money, which you can measure.

This has now spread all the ways to individuals. The commons, always a resource in a precarious position, is now the place for everybody to proudly defecate on. Throwing away litter, listening to music without headphones, rudely shouldering people away - all of it is accepted, because heaven forbid the individual sacrifices for the group. It is, after all, not a thing that has positive impact for themselves.

I don't know what will break us out of it, but yes, caring is missing because we've eliminated non-egocentric things from the rewards function we think we should apply.

37. bowsam+uA[view] [source] 2025-05-28 18:41:44
>>1dom+(OP)
> caring capacity feels like a biological limit

I agree with that. At some point you just give up because there's literally nothing left for you to give. I've learnt to be very selective with what I choose to care about

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38. catlik+sB[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 18:45:45
>>lolind+lm
Since you touched the topic. The protests in the US did have an impact, which now triggered a second impact on Harvard international students.

I think the concern in Gaza tickled some group the wrong way and there will be more awareness.

Additionally, there should be more awareness that protests are less tolerated by the government, which seems a bad thing.

replies(1): >>david-+AO
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39. testin+gD[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 18:55:13
>>jmye+hz
100% this.

Turn off all notifications. Don’t listen to radio, don’t have a TV, don’t buy newspapers or magazines. Talk to your neighbours, friends and family. Join the community garden, go on toddler led walks, go hiking/fishing/swimming/camping.

Live in the real world and fill your life with things from the real world. The rest is pure noise designed for the specific purpose of grabbing and holding your attention and keeping you in a state of panic or concern.

You wouldn’t put toxic items in your pantry to eat, don’t put this toxic crap into your awareness.

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40. lotsof+AD[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 18:56:50
>>Henchm+Hj
Those are unnecessarily emotionally charged definitions and implications of “resources” and “exploit”.

I am a resource for my kids, my spouse, and the rest of my friends and family. I am also a resource to my employer and other customers.

In any organization, a resource can vary from things such as land, chemicals, machines, humans, books, etc.

The term Human Resources seems accurate to a refer to a group of people that deal with the humans in the organization.

I do not see why “resources” is seen as having a negative connotation in this context. Of course, just like a family can mistreat a resourceful family member, so can any organization mistreat a human resource.

replies(1): >>Henchm+RO
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41. 1dom+iF[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 19:06:22
>>Night_+Ax
I agree, I think it relates to the number of channels we're exposed to at any one time. Think about the rate at which that has changed over the past 20, 200 and 20,000 years. Now think how our biology has changed to handle that. And then think how our social structures and work time expectations have changed over the same time periods.
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42. eriker+DJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 19:29:53
>>ranpri+iv
Zero sum claims do not a positive sum reduce
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43. 1dom+nL[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 19:38:47
>>oooyay+Nu
I guess it comes down to world view, since we can never know the answer: when a human has everything they need, including enough bandwidth, how many will care by default vs being apathetic by default.

If they care by default, all we need to do is give them everything they need and they'll do what is wanted. If not, then giving them everything they need will result in them doing nothing more.

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44. david-+AO[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 19:57:25
>>catlik+sB
How does "awareness" of any problem help anything? As people have been saying in this thread, we lack agency to do anything about the million problems that we are already "aware" of. That awareness is neither helping us nor the million causes we are bombarded with.
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45. Henchm+RO[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 19:59:09
>>lotsof+AD
> Those are unnecessarily emotionally charged definitions and implications of “resources” and “exploit”.

One, don’t attempt to invalidate my emotions. They are both entirely valid, given the concerted push from the C-suite to dehumanize their workforce, and entirely necessary. Necessary because our parents and grandparents lived better lives because they weren’t as dehumanized. Necessary because so few people in this community specifically see it that way and it *needs to be pointed out repeatedly*.

Perhaps it would resonate more if you, too, had heard a couple of C-suites & their chosen MBAs joking about this exact topic. Perhaps dehumanizing people would make your blood boil if you experienced it as casually and often as I have.

But perhaps not. One of the great things about the WTFC-era is that I can disregard your opinion utterly.

replies(1): >>lotsof+d31
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46. icelan+kP[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 20:02:32
>>zh3+mx
Sure, I vote. I do the things I can do, but I mostly focus on hyperlocal things (Little Free Pantries/Libraries) and my friends/family. Impacting their lives and the lives of the people in my community are my top priorities.
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47. lotsof+d31[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 21:56:09
>>Henchm+RO
If your parents and grandparents were able to live better lives as labor sellers, it was because the ratio of supply of labor and demand for labor was more favorable for them. Not because HR used to be known as Personnel or people were inherently “better”.

There were more slaves before MBAs, and before MBAs joked about mistreating employees, factory/plantation owners/kings did.

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48. smokel+IR1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-29 08:39:50
>>Night_+Ax
That may be true, but I'm not entirely convinced about the difference.

Just moving your head around in a forest also gives an amazing amount of input. And if you're being chased by a tiger through a jungle, you cross about 1,000 different species of plants and small animals.

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49. int_19+i52[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-29 11:37:05
>>icelan+wu
You can try to move out of harm's way, though.
50. xnx+G1f[view] [source] 2025-06-03 21:05:28
>>1dom+(OP)
Concern for things beyond our immediate survival is a cursed luxury.
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