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1. azalem+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-05-27 06:30:02
Something nobody is saying is that there genuinely are synergies in GE's businesses. Take MRI for an example (albeit one I know a lot about...):

-- the superconducting magnet shell requires the accurate creation of 'nested doll' cryogenic containers, built to withstand magnetostatic forces in a highly regulated environment with defined safety requirements under catastrophic failure modes. Solving the design problem is equivalent to solving a huge set of nasty, coupled PDEs subject to loads of material constraints. This is directly analogous to aspects of jet engine design.

-- inside the bore of the magnet (but not in the cryostat) goes a device called the gradient set, whose job is to generate \partial B_z/ \partial_{xyz} as a function of time (that, very much indirectly, the radiographer specifies). This is a water cooled, resistive set of magnet coils with a defined frequency response curve, linearity requirements, etc. The current into them is generated by a set of three huge amplifiers, which have to actually take a signal delivered on a timebase of microseconds and volts and amplify it with negligible delay and deliver kA into a large inductor centimetres away from a patient. This is a formidable (power) electronic engineering challenge with huge parallels to various aspects of electrical engineering – e.g. managing (preventing) dielectric breakdown, thermal management, inverse solutions to Maxwell's equations in a quasistatic region (people use streamfunctions to do this well), etc.

-- the RF side of the system has to transmit kV and receive microvolts within microseconds into a definitively challenging electrodynamic environment with constraints on harmonics. Everything has to keep to a hard realtime constraint. The ADC must have a huge dynamic range and the problem is conducted massively in parallel. This is directly analogous to problems in telecommunications or RF design, but harder -- intermittent pulsed not continuous wave, and a hard requirement to accurately measure analogue voltages. Designing the RF coil ("probe" in NMR speak or ≈"antenna") is a further horrible (full-wave) EM design problem that even GE often subcontract out to one of about five specialist firms worldwide.

It's not a priori obvious to me that lots of competing companies would be better at creating stuff that requires the interaction of disciplines like this. Rather, I view the split up of GE and all of the woes of the article as evidence of a business mismanaged by MBAs. The defined benefit pensions should have been protected by law and overseen by an independent regulator - like my defined benefit pension that sits above my employer and shares risk among many different universities.

replies(4): >>fluidc+6s >>gosub1+7I >>throwu+Gg1 >>creer+Oo2
2. fluidc+6s[view] [source] 2025-05-27 12:10:55
>>azalem+(OP)
In the '00s triggered by a stock market tumble, GE declared MRI was mature technology, put its MR products into maintenance mode, gutted R&D, laid off their coil lab (which other manufacturers used to contract with), canceled all new product development, sent platform software to India, and got rid of the US development team. After the breakup, GE's been trying really hard to catch up (which is good!). They're leading on the new deep-learning recons due to ties with SV but all their kit is dated and old and built for a different era. Even now it's still just new lipstick on the old tech because it takes so long to get stuff out. The new software platform that doesn't suck has been in an eternal state of "real soon now". Having said that... my sense is that they seem genuinely hungry while their major competitor has become a bit too well-fed in GE's absence. I do really like the things GE has coming, they're... just not here yet.
replies(1): >>azalem+Dw
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3. azalem+Dw[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-27 12:47:52
>>fluidc+6s
I agree with you on all of this (and like the fact that GE uses linux as a base, and not, as Siemens and Philips do, Windows + cygwin + a separate box either running linux or vxWorks). I guess my point was I think it's interesting that GE's main competitors in the MRI space are...well, Siemens and Philips, both of whom independently have their historical origins in power engineering (and make gas turbines!). Both have been going for a long, long time from the early days of MRI. And if you look at CT as another example – well, that came out of BASF, another engineering conglomerate. Ultrasound, first proposed for medical use by the physicist Paul Langevin, found practical application much later, again under similar conditions.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: it's almost as if the combination of supporting physics and engineering without particular attention to the ultimate "core competency" or "end market segment" lets creative, interdisciplinary ideas like this flourish.

replies(1): >>fluidc+vF
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4. fluidc+vF[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-27 13:47:59
>>azalem+Dw
iirc Siemens developed their own, but Philips MRI came via acquisition of Picker. Ultimately while there are some electronics and power similarities, I think the nature of healthcare products and services don't integrate well with management of the rest. MRI is just one part of the healthcare portfolio. Siemens has also spun off its healthcare business recently.
replies(1): >>azalem+BE1
5. gosub1+7I[view] [source] 2025-05-27 14:04:37
>>azalem+(OP)
This is the problem that patents are supposed to solve. All of that hardcore science should be documented in detail in patents when it was invented. Those patents are valid for some amount of time, and they're released to the public domain, so if GE abandons the technology, another company can take over from where they left off.
replies(1): >>creer+sq2
6. throwu+Gg1[view] [source] 2025-05-27 18:09:17
>>azalem+(OP)
Those synergies extended way beyond the technological too, which is how GE managed to survive in such a dysfunctional state for so long. Once they figured out that GE Capital could capture the financiers' profit margin on top of all their capital equipment, they unlocked a lot of money that had previous been taken up by banks and other investors. I.e. the total interest on a 10 year loan to buy a $10 million engine at 5% is over $2 million - essentially doubling (or better) their profit margins. Between that extra profit and related financial engineering, they could make a lot of money on the backend and turn that into an even bigger financial empire.

It wasn't until the 2008 GFC crushed GE Capital that it all started to really come apart, many decades after Welch got started.

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7. azalem+BE1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-27 21:20:07
>>fluidc+vF
I thought Philips also came about from SMIT and Marconi Medical Systems – could very well be wrong!
replies(1): >>fluidc+BI1
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8. fluidc+BI1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-27 22:00:26
>>azalem+BE1
Marconi was a rebranding of Picker

https://case.edu/ech/articles/m/marconi-medical-systems-inc

9. creer+Oo2[view] [source] 2025-05-28 07:48:51
>>azalem+(OP)
Was there really at GE much collaboration and sharing of competence between these divisions? Say in the examples you mention of jet engines and medical, or other power electronics and the power electronics of medical, or other RF and the RF of medical, etc?

I ask because at one of the others that I am familiar with, there was also this aura - mystique - of broad field competence but in practice and internally, nobody talked to anybody (and management somehow loved getting their noses into everyone's attempts at communicating with anyone.) It was very difficult to even figure out who was working on what.

We often hear of synergies but there are clear ways to NOT get technical synergies. (While financial synergies did exist - until people fixated on "pure plays".)

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10. creer+sq2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 08:08:26
>>gosub1+7I
"Public domain" is not the same as "published". In practice hardly any of these patents get freed (and at any rate not by placing them in the public domain.) They do expire.

At any rate again, in large groups like this, there is a conflict on patents. Patents are used as weapons against other large groups on one hand (equal to equal) and smaller wannabes on the other (swatting flies). The result is that day to day, there is little incentive to patent or publish anything. It's not a core objective. Now and then a promising product direction is identified and then real effort is put in papering it up. But that's only as a weapon against the others - certainly not for the advancement of mankind. The rest of the knowledge and experience dies with the brains that carry it (although occasionally they find the time to write a book.)

Finally, few "completed" technologies get abandoned outright, first they get spun off or sold to some other business. Even the patent stash - if there is one - is worth some money. What does get abandonned without any publication is mountains of smaller projects in engineering or research or manufacturing groups - which have other day to day concerns and are busy and have no issue with just shelving hundreds of smaller projects and turning attention to the next hundreds of smaller projects.

Do NOT count on patents to solve the problem of engineering and science waste.

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