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OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

submitted by swyx+(OP) on 2025-05-06 00:57:48 | 667 points 540 comments
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1. dtagam+x[view] [source] 2025-05-06 01:02:43
>>swyx+(OP)
https://archive.ph/ocXFo
18. bix6+QV[view] [source] 2025-05-06 12:44:40
>>swyx+(OP)
~$40M ARR makes this a 75x

Cursor yesterday was a 45X for comparison (9B, 200M)

https://techcrunch.com/2025/04/16/openai-is-reportedly-in-ta...

21. Androi+0W[view] [source] 2025-05-06 12:46:26
>>swyx+(OP)
Windsurf and Cursor feel like temporary stopgaps, products of a narrow window in time before the landscape shifts again.

Microsoft has clearly taken notice. They're already starting to lock down the upstream VSCode codebase, as seen with recent changes to the C/C++ extension [0]. It's not hard to imagine that future features like TypeScript 7.0 might be limited or even withheld from forks entirely. At the same time, Microsoft will likely replicate Windsurf and Cursor's features within a year. And deliver them with far greater stability and polish.

Both Windsurf and Cursor are riddled with bugs that don't exist upstream, _especially_ in their AI assistant features beyond the VSCode core. Context management which is supposed to be the core featured added is itself incredibly poorly implemented [1].

Ultimately, the future isn't about a smarter editor, it's about a smarter teammate. Tools like GitHub Copilot or future agents will handle entire engineering tickets: generating PRs with tests, taking feedback, and iterating like a real collaborator.

[0] https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/24/microsoft_vs_code_sub...

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/cursor/comments/1kbt790/rules_in_49...

27. rvz+7X[view] [source] 2025-05-06 12:53:30
>>swyx+(OP)
Very surprising outcome, since OpenAI went after Cursor (twice) [0] And I originally thought that Cursor would be bought instead a day before the rumour [1].

It was smart for Windsurf to take the offer and to get greedy in this hype cycle. Unless Cursor is thinking that Anthropic or someone else will buy them for a lot more, its going to get extremely competitive as the switching cost for Cursor is zero and that ARR can disappear very quickly.

Copilot will attempt to destroy Cursor on price and functionality for however long they want to.

Very risky for Cursor at $9B valuation (which I think is overvalued and based on VC FOMO).

[0] https://techcrunch.com/2025/04/17/openai-pursued-cursor-make...

[1] >>43698819

29. neonat+hX[view] [source] 2025-05-06 12:55:10
>>swyx+(OP)
https://archive.md/l6n9H
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34. rvz+eY[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 13:01:27
>>onlyre+PW
...as done with Teams.

Microsoft Build is this month [0] and it will tell where they are going next (other than price cuts).

I'm expecting disappointment for now, but also expecting GitHub Copilot to be upgraded. Then we'll see if they are ahead or so far behind.

[0] https://build.microsoft.com/en-US/home

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54. Androi+411[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 13:20:25
>>robinh+tY
I use Cursor in anger every day. The core idea behind Cursor is genuinely smart. But the execution is like the classic "unfinished horse" meme [0].

Microsoft provides the editor base, foundation models provide the smarts, and Cursor provides some, in my experience, extremely buggy context management features. There is no moat.

[0] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/unfinished-horse-drawing-flam...

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75. leonid+g51[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 13:44:30
>>Androi+0W
The thing is: we should not need standalone editors just to use AI coding agents. They could be just plugins, but Microsoft does not want to bend the plugin API enough for that. Windsurf has a "plugin edition" for JetBrains IDEs that works really, really well[0] (they also have a VSCode plugin[1] but it's lacking in comparison).

However, given that JetBrains also have their own AI offering[2], I'm not sure how long that will last too...

[0] https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/20540-windsurf-plugin-f...

[1] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Codeium....

[2] https://www.jetbrains.com/ai/

91. owenda+Ja1[view] [source] 2025-05-06 14:14:55
>>swyx+(OP)
We're reaching a point where we don't need to switch to another IDE (from VS Code/IntelliJ/insert-your-IDE-here) for "AI/vibe coding"

IDEs can support "AI coding agents" on their own.

The entire workflow for "AI coding agents" boils down to:

1. You write a prompt

2. The "agent" wraps it in a system prompt and sends it to the LLM

3. The LLM sends back a response

4. The agent performs specific actions based on that response (editing files, creating new ones, etc.)

Microsoft already started doing that with Copilot. And they have a vibrant ecosystem of VS Code extensions (I maintain one of them [1])

"AI agents" should be a feature, not a separate piece of software (IDE) that's integral to software devs.

[1] https://github.com/Kilo-Org/kilocode

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113. mdanie+Yi1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 14:58:39
>>sofixa+G91
And it being open core (MIT) means spinning up a version to test something is incredibly easy. Not exactly resource cheap, as it's still a rails app with multiple servers "smuggled" in the docker image, but it is easy

And I have long held that they are hungry, shipping like clockwork on or about the 20th of every month, showing up with actual improvements all the time https://about.gitlab.com/releases/ It seems this month brings 18.0 with it, for whatever that version bump happens to include

They also have a pretty good track record of "liberating" some premium features into the MIT side of things; I think it's luck of the draw, but it's not zero and it doesn't seem to be tied to any underhanded reason that I can spot

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123. xnx+Io1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 15:29:20
>>fcanes+ke1
> Wonder what Google has in storage for I/O now in May

"Gemini 2.5 Pro Preview (I/O edition)" >>43906018

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133. bolear+WH1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 17:15:25
>>htrp+wk1
Our plan is to be a superset of Cline and Roo's features (we already have all the major features from both) [0]

We also have our own provider, which means no need to bring your own API keys (you can if you like, but it is batteries included by default) and we're not charging anything on top of the API pricing. Instead of monetizing on individual developers, we want it to be free for them and make money eventually off enterprise contracts [1]

[0]: https://blog.kilocode.ai/p/roo-or-cline-were-building-a-supe... [1]: https://kilocode.ai

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147. T0Bi+nN1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 17:47:01
>>moi238+gu1
/s?

Because if you're referencing to a headline (without reading the article) that was on H a couple of days ago, it stated that 20-30% of the code in the repos was written by software. Software != AI

To quote wongarsu in the same post: "Considering that most of their software has been developed for decades and AI assistants have only started becoming useful in the last ~4 years it would be very surprising if 30% of their code is AI written. I doubt they even touched 30% of their code in the last 4 years. But what is perfectly plausible is that 30% of their code is written by code generators. Microsoft has a lot of interface code. All the windows DLLs that are just thin syscall interfaces, the COM and OLE interfaces in their office suite and everywhere else, whatever Office uses nowadays for interoperability to allow you to embed content of one product in another, whatever APIs their online products use, etc. In the leaked Windows XP source code it can be difficult to find the actual source code in between the boilerplate files containing repeated definitions, and in the decades since then the world has only leaned more into code generation."

Source: >>43841868

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171. rafram+DT1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 18:28:20
>>slt202+xQ1
These products are not complicated at their core — you can pretty much just drop in something like Monacopilot [1] and be 80% of the way there. But the last 20% is a real slog, and it mostly comes down to handling edge cases (bracket closing...) and optimizing prompting/context so you aren't burning cash. Whatever anyone claims about "feeling the AGI," AI isn't there yet.

[1]: https://github.com/arshad-yaseen/monacopilot

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174. cchene+EU1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 18:35:50
>>throwa+3p1
OpenAI has Codex CLI https://github.com/openai/codex
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175. madeof+fV1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 18:38:51
>>doix+xZ
I mean they already have. GitHub Copilot was the first LLM coding tool before "LLM" was in the lexicon. MS/Github kind of squandered their lead with it, but they released Agent Mode a few months back https://github.blog/news-insights/product-news/github-copilo...
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176. whynot+rV1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 18:39:29
>>elevat+KR1
Their tooling have never been flawless, and it still isn't.

Only for azure devops, there are +6k problems listed on developer community website with 500 still not closed for the last 6 months. [1]

The complete integration in the ecosystem is what's flawless.

Any company with a better product has to fight that integration and they almost always lose (Sybase, Borland, WordPerfect, Lotus, Netscape...)

1 : https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/AzureDevOps?ftyp...

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210. andai+D52[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 19:47:25
>>fcanes+ke1
They launched a new version of Gemini 2.5 Pro today.

https://developers.googleblog.com/en/gemini-2-5-pro-io-impro...

228. swyx+E82[view] [source] 2025-05-06 20:08:01
>>swyx+(OP)
my summary here https://news.smol.ai/issues/25-05-05-cursor-openai-windsurf
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267. TiredO+Jj2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 21:20:47
>>JSR_FD+Q61
https://windsurf.com/vim_tutorial?extensionName=vim
290. librar+av2[view] [source] 2025-05-06 22:54:17
>>swyx+(OP)
But is there a secret sauce in any of the coding agents (Copilot Agent, Windsurf, Claude Code, Cursor, Cline, Aider, etc)? Sure, some have better user experience than others, but what if anything makes one "better at coding" than another?

As this great blog post lays bare ("The Emperor Has No Clothes", https://ampcode.com/how-to-build-an-agent), the core tech of a coding agent isn't anything magic - it's a set of LLM prompts plus a main loop running the calls to the LLM and executing the tool calls that the LLM wants to do. The tools are pretty standard like, search, read file, edit file, execute a bash command, etc. etc. Really all the power and complexity and "coding ability is in the LLM itself. Sure, it's a lot of work to make something polished that devs want to use - but is there any more to it than that?

So what is the differentiator here, other than user experience (for which I prefer the CLI tools, but to each their own)? $3B is a lot for something that sure doesn't seem to have any secret sauce tech or moat that I can see.

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307. twobit+4z2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 23:33:09
>>cheema+782
there is now an integrated agent mode in vscode as of 3 weeks ago https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dutyOc_cAEU&pp=ygURYWdlbnQgbW9...
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311. Crypto+dB2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-06 23:56:13
>>rester+pZ1
> LLMs already write better prose than 95% of humans and models like o3 reason better than 90% of humans on many tasks.

Except except lawyers are ~.4%[1] of the population in the United States, so that 95% isn’t very impressive

[1] https://www.americanbar.org/news/profile-legal-profession/de...

316. djha-s+iC2[view] [source] 2025-05-07 00:10:24
>>swyx+(OP)
As a Vimmer, I'm not into VS Code forks. I really like the goose CLI[1] though. Some untapped market potential right there.

1: https://GitHub.com/block/goose

320. thekha+KC2[view] [source] 2025-05-07 00:13:27
>>swyx+(OP)
Valuation aside, Windsurf has built its own models [1] and boasts enviable enterprise distribution: $100M ARR, per TechCrunch [2]

[1] https://windsurf.com/blog/our-model-strategy [2] https://techcrunch.com/2025/04/22/why-openai-wanted-to-buy-c...

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337. ignora+JL2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-07 01:58:28
>>rpgbr+4b2
Bubble or not, given the exit, Windsurf's (Codeium) focus on enterprise sales motion has been rewarded rather handsomely: https://research.contrary.com/company/windsurf / mirror: https://archive.vn/ThWNz
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461. hadesa+sK3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-07 13:19:34
>>UncleO+vC2
We added it to the issues: https://github.com/Kilo-Org/kilocode/issues/349
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467. bcx+wU3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-07 14:08:14
>>bko+4W
Incredible timeline - also helpful to understand the OpenAI side.

1) OpenAI is valued at 300B (as of March 31st) https://openai.com/index/march-funding-updates/

2) OpenAI recently raised 40B from SoftBank and others.

3) Windsurf is getting roughly 1% of OpenAI's valuation.

OpenAI needs to keep moving fast to outpace MS, Google, and others -- and I think we can all agree that agentic coding is a major trend -- that is likely to keep growing really fast -- and super high leverage in that the folks doing the coding are well paid -- and more likely to be early adopters than any other field. (e.g. if openAI wants a fast way to grow beyond $20-$200/month, owning a tool like windsurf is a good move)

Some folks have been speculating the cash/equity split. I'd be confident whatever number they arrived at de-risks things for windsurf, and preserves the right amount of cash on hand for openAI.

Even if OpenAI is burning 10-20B a year, with the recent raise would buy them between 1-2 years, and given the pace of AI development that's a pretty long time.

490. koenva+Ll4[view] [source] 2025-05-07 16:20:03
>>swyx+(OP)
i fail to understand what makes this $3B valuation justified.

i built my personal code assistant after using cursor/windsurf/aider/cline because i was frustrated with how crappy they worked for my use case. i only program in python/js/html/css and i needed something better. only took me an hour of prompting and after that tinycoder basically built itself from there on out. i still use vscode to inspect the code sometimes, but i might replace vscode ultimately too.

source code at https://github.com/koenvaneijk/tinycoder and contributions welcome obviously.

518. phupt2+D75[view] [source] 2025-05-07 21:07:17
>>swyx+(OP)
OpenAI is turning to Profit Mode. Reference: https://newscvg.com/coverage/business-economy/openai-maintai...
519. jamiet+s85[view] [source] 2025-05-07 21:14:20
>>swyx+(OP)
Podcast interview with the CEO of Windsurf talking about the tech behind it https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/building-windsurf...
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531. hadesa+7q7[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-08 18:15:30
>>UncleO+vC2
Hey, we can't reproduce it. Could you maybe jump in and give some more details? https://github.com/Kilo-Org/kilocode/issues/349
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540. rvz+1Xx[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-19 16:14:44
>>rvz+eY
Well well well: [0]

[0] https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2025/05/19/openSourceAIE...

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