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[parent] [thread] 22 comments
1. tptace+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-04-07 01:15:43
Well, in between step 1 ("ban billboards") and step 3 ("ban advertisement") you'd need step 2 ("repeal the First Amendment of the United States Constitution").
replies(5): >>gkober+K >>paulry+b1 >>nobody+l1 >>ceejay+n1 >>Taek+78
2. gkober+K[view] [source] 2025-04-07 01:21:25
>>tptace+(OP)
They're banned in 4 US states already, with seemingly no infringement on the 1st Amendment.

Legally speaking, the validity of banning billboards tends to be evaluated based on the Central Hudson test. More practically, there's numerous limitations to commercial speech... for example, you can't blare an audio ad from your rooftop.

replies(1): >>tptace+X
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3. tptace+X[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 01:23:39
>>gkober+K
Billboards? Banning billboards is fine by me. Banning all advertising is unconstitutional.
replies(1): >>whatev+91
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4. whatev+91[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 01:25:43
>>tptace+X
Banning targeted advertising probably wouldn't be.
replies(1): >>bee_ri+24
5. paulry+b1[view] [source] 2025-04-07 01:25:58
>>tptace+(OP)
Commercial speech has limits, even as the first amendment is interpreted today. Well, for now at least.
6. nobody+l1[view] [source] 2025-04-07 01:27:19
>>tptace+(OP)
>Well, in between step 1 ("ban billboards") and step 3 ("ban advertisement") you'd need step 2 ("repeal the First Amendment of the United States Constitution"). Let me know how that goes!

For most of US history, Commercial speech was not afforded full free speech rights. Nor does it currently enjoy them, although it is more protected than it used to be[0]:

   Commercial speech, as the Supreme Court iterated in Valentine v. Chrestensen 
   (1942)[1], had historically not been viewed as protected under the First 
   Amendment. This category of expression, which includes commercial 
   advertising, promises, and solicitations, had been subject to significant 
   regulation to protect consumers and prevent fraud. Beginning in the 1970s, 
   however, the Supreme Court gradually recognized this type of speech as 
   deserving some First Amendment protection.
As such, it wouldn't require repealing anything. Just reinterpreting how the First Amendment applies (or not) to commercial speech. And given the wholesale tossing out of precedent by recent SCOTUS personnel, it's certainly possible (albeit unlikely -- and more's the pity -- in this configuration) for them to do so.

[0] https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/commercial-speech/

[1] https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/valentine-v-chresten...

replies(1): >>tptace+D3
7. ceejay+n1[view] [source] 2025-04-07 01:27:47
>>tptace+(OP)
Step three seemed to pass First Amendment muster for cigarette companies.
replies(2): >>tptace+d3 >>genewi+l4
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8. tptace+d3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 01:46:39
>>ceejay+n1
Commercial speech is protected by the First Amendment. Regulations of commercial speech need to pass the "Central Hudson Test", which requires a compelling government interest (subject to heightened scrutiny) and narrowly-tailored regulation. Under this rubric, you can get cigarette ads off billboards, but you probably can't regulate Nike's ads.
replies(1): >>kelnos+i8
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9. tptace+D3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 01:50:38
>>nobody+l1
I don't know what you mean by "full" free speech rights. But for the last 50 years, under the Burger, Rehnquist, and Roberts courts, pure commercial speech has been held to be protected by the First Amendment. The Burger court overturned Valentine.
replies(2): >>kelnos+l8 >>nobody+Pc
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10. bee_ri+24[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 01:54:01
>>whatev+91
I’d rather ban the behavior required for targeting (building invasive dossiers on everyday normal people), than the (admittedly annoying) speech.
replies(1): >>whatev+iv
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11. genewi+l4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 01:55:56
>>ceejay+n1
Not only that, but they were then told to post forced speech by a court not let locations that sell cigarettes.

Whatever, I don't see the difference between PMI/RJR advertising and Anheuser-Busch, and Bayer, and Pfizer, and the US Army, and six car insurance companies all claiming to have the lowest rates and best service.

I kicked television out of my house in 2002. I don't have any streaming services provided by a third party, nor do I really listen to the FM band on my car radio, nor XM. The ads are too many to bear.

Pihole, ad nauseam. If you bypass my pihole, my browser clicks every ad you show and sends the data to /dev/null except what site, timestamp, and a thumbnail of the ad. Its not botting; I'm actively hostile to advertising.

12. Taek+78[view] [source] 2025-04-07 02:28:54
>>tptace+(OP)
So, I dug into this somewhat deeply, and it's true that there's some case law which would make an outright ban of commercial advertising difficult, however:

The law is pretty consistent about the idea that any paid endorsement has to be "truthful". And as we've learned more about sociology and advertising, we've realized that things like paid endorsements are fundamentally not truthful, because they are misleading the public to believe that some figure or trusted source (even if only at a subconscious level - which is still enough to change consumer behavior!) is in favor of a product or brand.

So maybe if you could argue that paid speech is inherently untruthful (which I believe that it is!), then you could make legal policy that bans paid speech complaint with the First Amendment! (caveat: I am not a lawyer, I am not a legal activist, etc)

replies(1): >>tptace+o8
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13. kelnos+i8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 02:30:16
>>tptace+d3
If SCOTUS can develop a test to determine when the government is allowed to violate 1A, then they can loosen that test's requirements. They won't, of course, but I don't see why they couldn't, if they wanted to.
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14. kelnos+l8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 02:31:28
>>tptace+D3
Right, but there is past (obsolete) precedent that suggests otherwise. If Valentine can be overturned, then the current way of thinking can also be changed.
replies(1): >>tptace+Q9
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15. tptace+o8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 02:31:52
>>Taek+78
Read Va Pharmacy vs Va Citizens Consumer Council to get a sense for how well you're going to fare with "paid speech is inherently untruthful". It's addressed directly!
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16. tptace+Q9[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 02:47:11
>>kelnos+l8
The opinion overturning Valentine noted that 30 years of jurisprudence since Valentine had arrived at a consensus that Valentine sure was pretty dumb. Not just Burger's court.
replies(1): >>nobody+8d
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17. nobody+Pc[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 03:17:53
>>tptace+D3
That's what I said, with additional context and links.

However, commercial speech is not fully protected by the First Amendment.

E.g., In TV beer ads, no one is actually allowed to drink beer. And there are many more restrictions on commercial speech as well.

N.B., this is in the US. I can't speak for anywhere else.

replies(1): >>tptace+sl
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18. nobody+8d[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 03:21:43
>>tptace+Q9
>The opinion overturning Valentine noted that 30 years of jurisprudence since Valentine had arrived at a consensus that Valentine sure was pretty dumb. Not just Burger's court.

And the opinions on Gruen v. New York, Dobbs v. Jackson, Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo, and especially on point, Citizen's United all broke with long precedent and turned things upside down. No amendments to repeal/change, just a different set of folks on SCOTUS.

And those were pretty dumb. So perhaps we'll have some improvement eventually, although I probably won't live to see it. And more's the pity.

Edit: Added conclusion.

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19. tptace+sl[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 04:51:19
>>nobody+Pc
There is so far as I can tell no law or regulation against showing people drinking beer in a beer commercial.
replies(1): >>nobody+jW
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20. whatev+iv[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 06:29:20
>>bee_ri+24
That's probably about what it'd look like. Some combination of things that make it impossible to profitably advertise the way companies do today.
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21. nobody+jW[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 11:31:36
>>tptace+sl
Show me a single US beer commercial that aired on TV which actually shows folks drinking beer.

No rush. I'll wait. But I won't hold my breath.

replies(1): >>tptace+sc1
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22. tptace+sc1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 13:23:52
>>nobody+jW
Show me a single law, regulation, or court case indicating that a beer ad can't depict the consumption of beer. I don't believe you can.
replies(1): >>ceejay+el1
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23. ceejay+el1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-04-07 14:03:42
>>tptace+sc1
You're both half right.

There's no law, regulation, or court case because the industry self-regulates in fear of a new law being made.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/aug/20/heineken/n...

> "The fact that it is self-regulated now, that’s not something brewers would want to put in jeopardy," Kirkpatrick said. "It’s the way they have operated for decades. You show a lot of people enjoying a football game or enjoying a baseball game but you don’t show any consumption. I don't think you’re going to see that change."

> A Heineken beer commercial said regulations ban showing someone drinking beer on camera. If you take a more relaxed view of regulations, that’s close to the truth. The rules come from the television networks, not the government. The restriction might not have the force of law but it’s just as effective. We rate the claim Mostly True.

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