zlacker

>This does not mean that Google is making Android a closed-source platform, but rather that the open-source aspect will only be released when a new branch is released to AOSP with those changes, including when new full versions or maintenance releases are finished.

I'll believe it when I see it. These days, words are basically meaningless from these large tech companies. Actions are what matter.

at the very least, I'm not convinced this internal branch and AOSP will be close to feature parity if they do throw some stuff out.

>>johnny+(OP)
The good thing is that at least the kernel and the VM/runtime need to be open source

>>johnny+(OP)
No OEM is interested in AOSP builds, because no one is going to buy an Android phone without Google Play Services, which is required for many popular apps to work (banking, games). There were some Chinese OEMs that ran an Android build and have unofficial ways to get Play Store working (Boox eReaders for example), but those are increasingly rare now, as years of sanctions has led to Huawei de-Googling itself fast, with others following.

>>rchaud+96
Kindle Fire? Your smart TV? Your car infotainment? Android is everywhere even without Google

>>rozab+u9
Android TV is not AOSP, it is an Android variant actively developed by Google and requires Google Play Services.

Kindle Fire is based on AOSP, that was my mistake. I will say Amazon is a rare OEM in this regard; they're tablet-only, and happy with AOSP because they have their own app store that don't need Play Services integration.

>>merb+S5
the VM/runtime need to be open source

Isn't ART Apache 2-licensed? They don't have to provide the source. I don't see why they would completely close it though. It would lead to forks, plus they have a lot of control through Google Play Services etc. already.

>>rchaud+96
> Google Play Services, which is required for many popular apps to work

And here's where we need to apply antitrust pressure.

>>rchaud+bb
They are shutting their app store down, at least for non-first-party devices: https://www.androidpolice.com/amazon-android-app-store-shut-...

>>rozab+u9
The Horizon OS for Oculus headsets too.

>>rchaud+96
So one of the giants will build their version of microg and it will be like with wine, proton and steam os.

>>rchaud+bb
Your point is actually a good one because Amazon has abandoned its app store infrastructure. And it likely will just integrate Play Services in future.

>>rchaud+bb
In the tablet / phone world where end users expect to install applications from the playstore yes but there are many other device types that do use AOSP.

For instance some parking meters / train ticketing machines / payment terminals run Android. source: I work for company that makes some of them though we are moving away from Android to more classical embedded Linux.

Google play services doesn't matter in these contexts.

>>merb+S5
Until they swap out linux for fuschia!

>>schmor+6l
....any day now...

>>npodbi+zj
Except that attestation (Play Integrity) exists, and its usage by the apps on the Play Store seems to be increasing exponentially (if I'm not mistaken it only takes enabling a switch now to have it in your app).

>>rozab+u9
All of the chinese and indian phones?

>>microt+Ud
Parts are GPLv2 with Classpath exception:

https://cs.android.com/android/platform/superproject/main/+/...

>>mfuzze+lk
Interesting? So Android replaced Windows CE in some cases?

>>rchaud+96
DJI/Hasselblad use it for their X1D/X2D line of cameras, based on the (accidentally) non-encrypted firmware for the X1D Mk II which has android stuff in it.

>>rchaud+96
We're all going to have to live in ze pod and eat ze boogs when it comes to software platforms and ecosystems because aside from perhaps cloud deployments at scale, there just isn't an incentive to support open source from an ecosystem standpoint.

Give you an example: Recently the Open Source Initiative held board elections. Three of the candidates were disqualified. Two were disqualified for refusing to use proprietary software with Stallman-like stubbornness after explicitly being told that use of proprietary software was non-negotiable for board participation. Lunduke tried to weave it into his neo-Nazi narrative of cultural bolsheviks infesting open source, but the reality is the proprietary software in question is DocuSign -- and there is no alternative in the open source world that does what DocuSign does.

So if the steward organization of open source cannot function without proprietary software, what hope do the rest of us have? Especially with online services using remote attestation and refusing to function unless you're using a known, approved stack from boot to UI layer. May as well buy a Mac and an iPhone and be done with it. Save you lots of hassle and you'll look less like a dweeb.

>>g-b-r+Hx
Play Integrity and Attestation are distinctly different things. Attestation is a far better solution as it's not literally controlled by Google like the Play Integrity API is.

GrapheneOS actually explicitly pushes for services to switch away from Play Integrity API or SafetyNet API towards the Android Attestation API for that reason.

https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-gu...

And notably, long term if Google becomes an unreliable maintainer for Android, the other major Android providers are likely to coordinate a list of "approved signing keys" so that apps can use those with the standard Android HW Attestation API.

>>OneDeu+521
Ok, yes, I meant Play Integrity indeed (which is an attestation system).

That's what Google has been strongly pushing to developers.

>>fweime+Zy
yeah it’s mostly the runtime which is basically openjdk bits.