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1. kiba+(OP)[view] [source] 2024-12-13 02:24:31
It's so easy to blame it all on the feet of oligarchs, but it is ultimately our collective responsibility. The democrats lost the popular vote. Think about that.

Progress, or even the status quo as it is today is rejected by half of the population.

replies(3): >>mandma+uJ >>vouaob+tJ1 >>ilrwbw+uT5
2. mandma+uJ[view] [source] 2024-12-13 13:33:00
>>kiba+(OP)
As if Democrats aren't owned by oligarchs.

Look at who funds them. Look what they do, instead of what they say.

replies(1): >>kiba+oj1
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3. kiba+oj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-13 17:29:57
>>mandma+uJ
I don't see how that matter. There was a meaningful choice.
replies(2): >>mandma+Ro1 >>mindsl+VN1
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4. mandma+Ro1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-13 18:04:29
>>kiba+oj1
There were some 'meaningful' differences (mostly in their rhetoric, but still) on some important issues.

However, when both 'choices' are openly supporting a live-streamed genocide, then any 'meaning' in the choice is only for people willing to endorse Nazi-level crimes.

... Not Godwinning here, that's just a simple fact; backed up by basically every human rights organization, and the UN, and billions in unguided bombs, etc.

That's why turnout for the Dems was so much lower, as polls and protests had unambiguously promised would be the case. That and the economy, which Democrats insisted is great even as people struggle to survive. Dumb strategy, but the strategists still got paid so...

Democrats used to say, "Not everyone who votes for Trump is a racist - but they all decided it wasn't a dealbreaker"... Well, genocide is quite a bit worse than racism - even if you try to relabel it as 'sparkling ethnic cleansing lite', or 'deserved', or whatever.

And here we are wondering why the future feels fucked up... Smh

replies(1): >>kiba+1r1
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5. kiba+1r1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-13 18:21:50
>>mandma+Ro1
I am not really going to argue on the issue of Palestine since that is apparently what you refer to, only to say that I still think there's a meaningful difference.

That's why turnout for the Dems was so much lower, as polls and protests had unambiguously promised would be the case. That and the economy, which Democrats insisted is great even as people struggle to survive. Dumb strategy, but the strategists still got paid so...

Regardless of the Democrat's strategic mistakes, you can't avoid the responsibility of voters, who are supposed to be well informed, well educated, and difficult to fool. Democratic shooting ourselves in the foot is a collective sin.

replies(1): >>mandma+Yr1
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6. mandma+Yr1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-13 18:29:28
>>kiba+1r1
> I am not really going to argue on the issue of Palestine since that is apparently what you refer to, only to say that I still think there's a meaningful difference.

Yes, I'm referring to the genocide of Palestinians. It's not something I, or other American voters, could overlook.

> you can't avoid the responsibility of voters

No, and I don't, but when corporate media acts in lockstep with the duopoly's oligarch owners (hey, guess who owns corporate media) then voters can't take the full blame.

Look at corporate media folding themselves into conniptions trying not to acknowledge that Americans response to the assassination of a mass murdering CEO was glee, right across the political spectrum. Look at how they've twisted the 'conflict' (aka genocide) in Gaza.

I'll say it one last time: If Democrats had wanted to win this election, they could have. Easily. All the numbers, all the polls, all the world was telling Biden and Harris for the last year: Stop arming Israel. Stop vetoing ceasefires. Just do the absolute bare minimum so we can hold our noses and vote for you, as is tradition...

Dems refused point blank. Trump's presidency isn't on voters, it's on the Dems themselves; and any analysis which misses this fact isn't worth a pig's fart.

replies(1): >>kiba+FJ1
7. vouaob+tJ1[view] [source] 2024-12-13 20:34:38
>>kiba+(OP)
> It's so easy to blame it all on the feet of oligarchs, but it is ultimately our collective responsibility. The democrats lost the popular vote. Think about that.

Democrat or republican; both support the oligarchy in separate ways because both support the advancement of technology. And increasingly powerful technology supports oligarchy and that power structure cannot be stopped by democracy because democracy functions within technology.

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8. kiba+FJ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-13 20:35:24
>>mandma+Yr1
Yes, I'm referring to the genocide of Palestinians. It's not something I, or other American voters, could overlook.

Unfortunately, I don't think the issue of Palestinians are important driving issues to American voters. I wish I have a source to point to but this is based on what I read.

Dems refused point blank. Trump's presidency isn't on voters, it's on the Dems themselves; and any analysis which misses this fact isn't worth a pig's fart.

I have said it before, collective responsibility and sin. There's no get out of jail free card for everyone. People made their decisions and now they have to lie with it. You can blame it on the oligarch or the media or whatever you want but it doesn't absolve voters of anything.

The only people who can truly sleep at night with a good conscious are people who voted Democrats and campaign workers who's working hard to execute strategies.

I wish I had engaged with my family more on political issues as they all voted for Trump in a battleground state. I won't be making that mistake again.

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9. mindsl+VN1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-13 21:10:39
>>kiba+oj1
There was certainly a meaningful choice, but it was between status quo conservatism where the plebs get thrown a few bones but no overall reform to ever-ratcheting corporate control, and spiteful populist destructive rage taking for granted everything we still do enjoy. Spite won. It's hard to tell if another Trump term will be merely another standard of living haircut via rampant inflation and corporate giveaways, or the actual end of US hegemony and western society, because the guy is a verbal diarrhea chameleon. But we as a society have bought the ticket, so I guess we're taking the ride regardless.

It is unfortunate that we didn't have a Luigi Mangione a few years ago, and maybe a few copy cats. Not because escalating to that type of accountability dynamic is something to be celebrated, but rather because the wide outpouring of understanding is the type of unifying pressure relief valve our society desperately needs, instead of being divided and conquered by different flavors of authoritarianism.

10. ilrwbw+uT5[view] [source] 2024-12-16 04:51:41
>>kiba+(OP)
Yup and it happened purely because of elitism.
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