zlacker

[parent] [thread] 33 comments
1. throw_+(OP)[view] [source] 2024-12-02 18:34:52
The problem is if it is bad, they have to burn it to mask the taste. Same with most meats too.
replies(3): >>loloqu+9n >>searea+tv >>fuzzte+Pq1
2. loloqu+9n[view] [source] 2024-12-02 21:04:02
>>throw_+(OP)
I don’t follow - how do you mask a bad taste (bad coffee) with a bad taste (burned coffee)? I.e. if it’s going to taste bad then use a lighter roast, cheaper and faster anyway.
replies(4): >>kdmtct+lp >>0x457+Zp >>bschwi+1P >>throw_+Us2
◧◩
3. kdmtct+lp[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-02 21:16:44
>>loloqu+9n
One could pretend that beans are intentionally burned, "The Vietnamese Way", regardless of the source material quality. Lighter roast would differ from batch to batch with varying not-so-good taste, but charcoal is always a charcoal.
◧◩
4. 0x457+Zp[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-02 21:20:56
>>loloqu+9n
Burnt coffee taste like burnt coffee. Vietnamese drink coffee with 1/4 can of condensed milk in it.

Bad coffee beans if not roasted to charcoal state taste even worse. Argument that that most of available coffee in VN is made from pretty bad beans, so roasters have no other way to roast it to that level.

That's it.

replies(1): >>loloqu+JL
5. searea+tv[view] [source] 2024-12-02 22:00:30
>>throw_+(OP)
This is a common cliche in the hipster coffee community. The truth is darker roasts change the acid profile of coffee, and many people prefer that taste. To them, drinking a "good" coffee is like drinking a "bad" coffee with a lemon squeezed into it.
replies(2): >>retina+xF >>XajniN+Ga2
◧◩
6. retina+xF[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-02 23:28:18
>>searea+tv
not really a cliche. that is why starbucks does it. they can cover up taste of poor beans especially when adding milk. most prefer a dark roast because corporations want to make profits and made our tastebuds lazy by force drinking it everyday. just like food with sweeteners or msg. it just kills the purpose of food as a craft. nowadays its even more the opposite there is an hipster revival of dark roast or msg hyping culture as marketing tool to sell it. but lets be homest those things are cache-misère
replies(2): >>searea+4M >>throwa+y81
◧◩◪
7. loloqu+JL[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 00:28:02
>>0x457+Zp
They could just stop selling it if it’s that bad :)
replies(2): >>forgot+3W >>EasyMa+bZ
◧◩◪
8. searea+4M[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 00:30:46
>>retina+xF
This comment is a bunch of contradictory hipster attitudes.
replies(2): >>Error9+eW >>retina+LP1
◧◩
9. bschwi+1P[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 01:08:55
>>loloqu+9n
Dark roast isn't necessarily bad, quite a lot of people prefer the taste, especially if they're adding milk or other things to their drink.

But a dark roast is easier to produce, and easier to produce consistently. If you take high quality beans, and low quality beans, and roast them both to a dark level (let's say "French" or "Italian" roast), they're going to taste approximately the same. Therefore if you're producing coffee at a larger scale and want to save money, you can use cheaper beans and roast them dark to mask the imperfections that come with the cheaper beans.

There are some truly incredible coffees out there and a well-executed light or light-medium roast will bring out those flavors beautifully, but the quality starts at the coffee farm. You can't light roast a low quality coffee bean and expect those same excellent flavors.

◧◩◪◨
10. forgot+3W[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 02:24:47
>>loloqu+JL
Lower income countries make do with what they have. They can't just throw everything out and import higher quality stuff like some countries can.
◧◩◪◨
11. Error9+eW[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 02:25:55
>>searea+4M
They are completely right. You put it in flowery words by saying it adjusts the acidity profile of the coffee. When it literally destroys a bunch of flavor compounds and replaces them with burnt notes.
◧◩◪◨
12. EasyMa+bZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 02:58:42
>>loloqu+JL
I agree. If they weren't making money, they'd go bust, so clearly someone likes the "burnt coffee". It's odd how some posters (not you!) Will act like an obvious opinion is to be taken as fact, and not acknowledge that some people like a certain taste. I mean, some people like super salty anchovies, but I abhor them, but I don't tell the anchovie lovers that they are incorrect.
replies(1): >>0x457+953
◧◩◪
13. throwa+y81[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 05:34:42
>>retina+xF
"poor beans": This is the first time that I heard that Starbucks has poor beans. Can you explain more? To be clear: I am not here to shill for Starbucks.

Also: What do you say about Italians drinking a cappuccino or macchiato (expresso shot with a splash of steamed milk)? From what I have seen while traveling in Italy, most Italians drink coffee at small coffee shops. Or French people drinking cafe latte?

replies(3): >>roflye+Sa1 >>fuzzte+es1 >>retina+WP1
◧◩◪◨
14. roflye+Sa1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 06:19:12
>>throwa+y81
Like what you like, I think that is great. Some people really like dark roasted coffee. Nothing wrong with that, they aren't wrong/unsophisticated/whatever.

However, roasting coffee dark does homogenize the flavor of the coffee, and you do lose more and more of what that coffee tastes like. Coffees have a ton of different flavor compounds, and no two coffees are the same. There are quality issues and processing issues though that don't help to highlight this too, so it's hard to find coffee - even from people who know how to roast - that can shine in this way.

I think everyone should try a good coffee that has some punchy flavors - I'm not saying everyone should like it. It's a fun thing and should be experienced if you're interested.

replies(1): >>searea+Xk1
◧◩◪◨⬒
15. searea+Xk1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 08:23:13
>>roflye+Sa1
You can make this argument for all cooking. You could even substitute "light roast" for "dark roast" in the above and it would read exactly the same. Why not brew raw coffee berries?
replies(3): >>throwa+yn1 >>throw_+ju2 >>roflye+WO2
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
16. throwa+yn1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 08:53:47
>>searea+Xk1
When you say "cooking" here, do you *only* mean roasting coffee beans? Or do you use the term "cooking" more generally? If specific, I agree with your point. If general, I would say that cooking proteins fundamentally changes the food and makes it more digestible (meat, fish, eggs, etc.).
replies(2): >>fuzzte+0v1 >>searea+vN2
17. fuzzte+Pq1[view] [source] 2024-12-03 09:31:05
>>throw_+(OP)
How does burning mask the taste of bad meat? (Not a meat eater, here.)
replies(1): >>throw_+5s2
◧◩◪◨
18. fuzzte+es1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 09:47:49
>>throwa+y81
>macchiato

Side note:

I rarely drank coffee (or tea, although I do drink tea again, somewhat, nowadays).

I used to drink Indian-style milk tea almost daily, earlier, in school, college, and later.

So once, some years ago, when I walked into a Cafe Coffee Day [1] shop (an Indian coffee shop chain, possibly modeled on Starbucks), and after looking at the menu, ordered a macchiato. it was a pleasant surprise to find that it tasted very good. :)

(I had nothing against coffee, it was a common drink at home, growing up, the filter coffee [2] kind, but also Nescafe and Bru, just that I did not prefer it much, later.)

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caf%C3%A9_Coffee_Day

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_filter_coffee

Filter coffee has kind of cult status in some states of South India.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
19. fuzzte+0v1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 10:17:26
>>throwa+yn1
>If general, I would say that cooking proteins fundamentally changes the food and makes it more digestible (meat, fish, eggs, etc.)

Applies to vegetables and other vegetarian foods, too :)

Ever tried eating raw wheat, rice, pulses or vegetables? Only some vegetables are okay in salads.

replies(1): >>fuzzte+nh6
◧◩◪◨
20. retina+LP1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 13:46:56
>>searea+4M
sure. well argumented response
◧◩◪◨
21. retina+WP1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 13:48:36
>>throwa+y81
open a starbucks bean bag and smell it. I dont know one person who would say that smells good.

also french coffee is horrible mostly because it is controlled by only one group in a mafia like fashion where they rent you the coffee machine but you have to buy their beans. italians can make good coffee with old espresso machines and average beans which says more about their skills than anything else.

◧◩
22. XajniN+Ga2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 15:37:10
>>searea+tv
A while ago I bought a coffee machine and the gadgets that go along with it. I managed to learn how to extract coffee evenly and all that stuff, but the final product was never tasty. It always tasted like hot puke. Then I realized I liked robusta, which is used for a proper Turkish (or Bosnian or Serbian) coffee that I grew up with.
◧◩
23. throw_+5s2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 16:58:39
>>fuzzte+Pq1
Burnt meat tastes like burnt meat, people are familiar with it and can eat it, even it is not the greatest thing, and burnt meat tastes like burnt meat regardless of how it was in the beginning, so you could imagine that it was actually good, it just happened to be burnt. Not burnt meat has a wider range, it can taste good or bad, it's like in "dead men tell no tales" :)
replies(1): >>fuzzte+444
◧◩
24. throw_+Us2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 17:02:37
>>loloqu+9n
The range is somehow (unburnt good coffee) > (burnt good coffee == burnt bad coffee) > (unburnt bad coffee).

If you are in the last box, you cannot get to the first one, but you can still move one step up by burning it. Plus you can add a lot of milk and cream and then it is almost the same anyway.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
25. throw_+ju2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 17:10:49
>>searea+Xk1
You can indeed make a (less absolute) form of this argument for all cooking:

Overcooking and adding a lot of spices makes everything (more or less) edible. With less cooking and less spices, you can better taste the original ingredients.

replies(1): >>searea+zJ3
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
26. searea+vN2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 18:46:07
>>throwa+yn1
I mean all cooking, including roasting.
replies(1): >>roflye+AQ2
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
27. roflye+WO2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 18:52:34
>>searea+Xk1
You should try green coffee and see what you think. Some roast on the coffee does enhance the flavor, make it more soluble, etc.. "underdeveloped" is definitely a thing.

I'm sure you will agree that raw beef and a steak taste differently?

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯
28. roflye+AQ2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 18:59:39
>>searea+vN2
I mean, you can agree that there's a difference between raw beef, a rare steak, medium, well done, and carbonized, right? Same deal. Some people may prefer well done and maybe even carbonized, but you have to agree that when you cook a steak that much you lose a lot of what the meat can offer.
replies(1): >>searea+vK3
◧◩◪◨⬒
29. 0x457+953[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 20:14:43
>>EasyMa+bZ
I think it's because people that complain about "burnt coffee" (me) are people that take their coffee black and probably brew it at come.

Meanwhile, people that don't mind "burnt coffee" are the people that preferred coffee-based drinks from coffee shops. If I get a salted caramel mocha Frappuccino with two pumps of hazelnut - burnt beans are probably the only kind of beans I will be able to taste in that drink.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
30. searea+zJ3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-04 00:25:18
>>throw_+ju2
"overcooking" is a circular argument
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣
31. searea+vK3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-04 00:34:46
>>roflye+AQ2
Would you consider a medium or medium-rare steak losing a lot of what meat can offer?
replies(1): >>roflye+OM5
◧◩◪
32. fuzzte+444[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-04 04:46:22
>>throw_+5s2
>dead men tell no tales

good one, bro.

now, walk the plank.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking_the_plank

I'm sending you to Davy Jones' locker.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Jones%27s_locker

:)

jk

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣▦
33. roflye+OM5[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-04 19:36:33
>>searea+vK3
No, but I would say the same about coffee. I would consider these roasts: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/46... and https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/47... to have roasted a lot of what the coffee has to offer away.
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯
34. fuzzte+nh6[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-04 23:09:38
>>fuzzte+0v1
And cooking fundamentally changes the food because cooking is a chemical and physical reaction caused by the heat on the food being cooked. Proteins get denatured, food gets softer or harder (depending upon the amount of liquid and heat added or removed), etc.

I am not a expert on the science of cooking, these are just my casual, slightly scientific observations as a layman :)

[go to top]