>>walter+(OP)
This is one of the small marvels of the internet. I tied mine wrong for decades and while it's not a life-changer I do love having shoes that don't constantly untie themselves these days.

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/grannyknot.htm

>>walter+(OP)
I don't know the correct name for it (I was told it's an "Ice Skater's knot" or a "Hockey Player's knot"), but doing two passes around the first loop while tying an otherwise normal bow is also far more secure than a traditional bow.

And yes, when written like that it's a bit hard to visualize but if you tie your shoe with "two passes around the first loop" in mind, it's a pretty natural motion.

>>walter+(OP)
There's also this: https://www.ted.com/talks/terry_moore_how_to_tie_your_shoes and several other copycat videos on youtube.

Simply tie the 'bunny knot' the other way (start with a loop on the left instead of right), apparently.

Until you realize it totally depends on how you made the initial 'twist laces together' loop.

It's not easy to see from the video, but he's doing left-over-right, and so a right-loop for the main bow is of course wrong.

If you make the initial twist right-over-left and then under-and-through (as I learned), then you can tie the bow starting with the right loop, and the resulting knot does not twist vertical when tensioned, and does not come undone easily.

So yes, some people have been doing it wrong, but it's easier to fix the initial twist loop than the main bow loop imho.

Ian's knot looks even more secure though.

>>walter+(OP)
The thing I like the most about this site is that I can post data (voting) without being logged in or anything. That’s got a classic feel to it.

>>walter+(OP)
I'm not sure whether that's how I tie my laces or not as I use the "fastest" method which is demonstrated by Matt Parker on Numberphile here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPIgR89jv3Q

I think they're the same, but the method is now purely muscle memory for me and the diagrams on Ian's page don't look familiar.

Edit: Looking around Ian's site, they are different. The method I (and also Matt Parker) use is the "Ian Knot": https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm

>>ndsipa+me
Ian's knot is also the one I use, the secure knot is more resilient, but the fact that Ian's knot works despite being so fast and looking like a magic trick never fails to make me smile, it's an instant of glee every time I tie my shoes.

>>walter+(OP)
Interestingly I use why I know as the Berluti knot but the method and result is different than Ian's. I feed the loose ends back through the loop whereas he does not. I love the symmetric look and tightness of the hold. Great for dress shoe-type laces. Method as I use is here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kXHemBywew4&

>>dcmint+pd
I've always known the difference between the square knot and the granny knot, but I still usually tie it "wrong" because it's muscle memory and I can't be bothered. But honestly, now that I'm middle aged, I just get away with wearing slip on shoes most of the time and only catch flak for it from my young adult son.

>>ndsipa+me
Matt is also doing the 'trefoil' left-over-right.

What's wrong with you people!!!! That's why your laces keep coming undone!!! The trefoil should be right-over-left.

lol

But it does look magical, I'll have to try it, switching the forward/backward loops due to my right-over-left trefoil.

>>maskli+Qe
The problem is that I've now forgotten how to tie a normal shoelace knot. It's similar to how I can't remember an oft-used password unless I can use a keyboard and see what my fingers are typing.

>>jackne+6g
I get confused by the terminology (is that my left, or coming from the left etc) but I presume you mean the preliminary cross-over of the laces. One way leads to a less secure knot and the other way should be secure - I don't have issues with laces undoing.

>>jackne+Hd
> Ian's knot looks even more secure though.

"Ian's knot" or "Ian's secure knot"?

>>ndsipa+Dg
Yes, if you do the initial cross-over right-over-left, then a normal 'bunny' knot, with the 'passive loop' on the right, it's secure.

They have to match. From all the "you're doing it wrong" posts and videos I can only assume that everyone (else) is learning left-over-right for the initial twist, and then right-loop for the main bow, which of course slips.

>>walter+(OP)
This site is gold. I learned the Ian knot forever ago from there. Knots tied this way really don't come loose.

>>techno+Nf
I like to wear nice dress shoes, so that's certainly a factor. It took no more than a moment to learn to do the first half of the knot "wrong" (i.e. to be compatible with the second half of the knot) - and I'd say it was in my muscle memory within a day or two.

A few years later I took up partner dancing and I'm glad that losing a lace in the middle of a dance is a rare occurrence for me - it's super annoying on the rare occasions that it happens (either interrupting the dance to re-tie or putting up with the lace getting underfoot for the rest of it)

PS am also middle-aged...

>>walter+(OP)
This is hilarious. I learned this 5 years from a guy at REI in Los Angeles, when I was complaining that the shoelaces of my Merrell Moab always came loose.

>>techno+Nf
I use the "right over left and left over right makes a knot both tidy and tight" every time unless I'm in a hurry, which I usually am if I'm tying a bow, in which case it's completely a coin flip as to what gets tied.

>>ndsipa+jg
I didn't learn till I was a teen(I was taught several times, but have never been a fan of non-sandals so always forgot within a day or two).

Then I found what it actually is, it's a doubly slipped square knot, a square knot is right over left and left over right, and slipped versions are usually just finishing with a loop that goes back the way it came, so I can figure it out from the much easier to memorize verbal description.

>>ndsipa+Ug
Isn't Ian's original just a regular shoelace bow but tied faster/in a way that's less likely to make a granny knot for some people?

>>eterni+iP
It's the same, but I don't think it particularly helps to avoid a granny knot as that's determined by the orientation of the initial cross-over knot.

>>ndsipa+Ug
Yes, "Ian's secure knot".

"Ian's knot" is just the regular shoelace, done wrong - starting with a left-over-right twist, instead of right-over-left. So that knot will twist to vertical and self-loosen.