zlacker

I'm not going to argue for or against any specific conclusion here, but there are several reasons that observational nutrition studies (and reviews of such work, like this one) need to be taken with a grain of salt, including:

- healthy user bias: People who choose a plant-based diet (or in fact, probably just about any structured diet) are more likely to be health conscious in general and more likely to have other healthy habits like exercise.

- latent variables: "meat eaters" follow a wildly diverse group of diets, including those who eat just fresh lean meats, and those who eat heavily processed foods like bacon and sausage. Or those who eat just chicken. Or just fish, etc. A lot of the contradictory claims about "meat" seem to have a lot to do with these distinctions.

- self-reporting errors: Most observational nutritional studies rely on self-reporting of diet - there's a ton of research that shows that people regularly misreport what they eat in these studies (both qualitative & quantitative).

All of this is not to dismiss the results either - a lot of the time observational nutrition studies are the best we have! Doing randomized controlled trials on these kinds of interventions is difficult, so observational studies are often the best we can get, but they're really only a piece of the puzzle.

>>jonnyc+(OP)
yep whenever i see things like this im like... yeah obviously vegans eat healthier because of their conscious attitude towards diet. That doesn't mean you can't eat some meat if you actually avoid processed stuff.

>>jonnyc+(OP)
Do you have any evidence that plant-based diets are more "health conscious", and that that by itself explains why they are healthier?

I'm personally vegan for ethical reasons, not health reasons. I wonder how many people actually go plant-based for health reasons, I doubt it's the majority.

>>jonnyc+(OP)
Malnutrition is not uncommon among people who went vegetarian/vegan due to ideology not backed by proper nutrition knowledge. Health-conscious doesn't necessarily mean healthy.

>>paullu+Y3
I don't know the data on this, but I'm surprised you're doubtful. Don't you think the media and doctors alike have been pushing the idea that plant-based diets are healthier? My doctor suggests a plant-based diet for health. A family member of mine who gets most of his scientific and historical info from netflix is thoroughly convinced that meat will kill you. Just anecdotes of course.

>>paullu+Y3
From the study:

"It should be remarked that, in the majority of the cases, people adopting plant-based diets are more prone to engage in healthy lifestyles that include regular physical activity, reduction/avoidance of sugar-sweetened beverages, alcohol and tobacco, that, in association with previously mentioned modification of diet [62], lead to the reduction of the risk of ischemic heart disease and related mortality, and, to a lesser extent, of other CVDs."

"It has also been described that vegetarians, in addition to reduced meat intake, ate less refined grains, added fats, sweets, snacks foods, and caloric beverages than did nonvegetarians and had increased consumption of a wide variety of plant foods [65]. "

>>knight+68
Honestly, I wish media would be pushing the idea that plant-based diets are healthier. Instead, all I see in the media is advertisements for meat and dairy products. Doctors tell me that "oh maybe it's because you're vegan?" whenever there is ever anything wrong with me, like say, a cavity at the dentist.

I know about 20-30 other vegans, and literally all of them are vegan for ethical or environmental reasons. None of them do it for health reasons, otherwise vegan pizza, vegan hot chocolate and vegan muffins wouldn't have been a thing.

My experience is also just anecdotal of course. And it might also be a difference in culture or country, perhaps.

>>evolvi+l9
I assume that this is in response to > Do you have any evidence that plant-based diets are more "health conscious", and that that by itself explains why they are healthier?

Good to know, I didn't know this was the case. I wonder if going plant-based makes you more prone to engage in healthy lifestyles, or if having a healthy lifestyle makes you more prone to go plant-based.

>>paullu+Y3
The "healthy user bias" is a well-known phenomenon in this kind of research, and has been studied specifically with vegetarianism (for example, https://journals.lww.com/nutritiontodayonline/abstract/2019/...). But as mentioned in the comment, I suspect you'd find a similar bias in all sorts of structured diets - the group of people who follow diet X (including sub-groups who follow for health reasons, or moral reasons) will be biased towards being more health conscious.

Again, this doesn't negate the research on "diet X", but it does make coming to a conclusion more complicated.

>>voytec+16
Not sure about "malnutrition", per se, but one issue is that if a vegan woman gets pregnant, and hasn't take care of her b12 needs, the embryo starts getting brain damage at 6 weeks. That can mean just two weeks after missing one period

>>paullu+4a
Hm, interesting! I see advertisements for meat too, but I generally don't get the impression of them trying to say meat isn't unhealthy. I mean, by and large, it does seem true that pushing veganism or vegetarianism would have a positive effect on people's health, as far as I can tell. Maybe the media should actually be pushing it more. Or at least, in your country/culture.