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The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

submitted by vmoore+(OP) on 2024-02-14 19:37:32 | 119 points 172 comments
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3. MBlume+yj[view] [source] 2024-02-14 21:06:49
>>vmoore+(OP)
I'm strongly in favor of expanding the US social safety net, but I don't want to neglect other obvious factors here. Dutch children are able to walk or bike outside unsupervised. In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. I think this kind of freedom of movement has a big effect on happiness, it certainly did for me.

ETA relevant links: https://youtube.com/@NotJustBikes https://letgrow.org/

ETA again: I glibly mentioned "being killed by a driver" but of course navigating the typical US built environment if you're under 16 or otherwise unable to drive is a miserable experience in a number of ways even if you survive it. Highways make pedestrian paths unnecessarily roundabout. Parking lots make everything further from everything else. Crossing major roads requires getting drivers to notice and stop for you (harder when you're short!), or waiting through interminable signal cycles, etc.

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9. softwa+Wk[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 21:12:04
>>MBlume+yj
Cars ruin cities - https://www.ft.com/content/27169841-7ee3-481e-919d-41b247e40...
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20. zachka+5n[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 21:22:42
>>MBlume+yj
For more in-depth reading on Dutch street design, this blog is fascinating:

https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/search/label/what%20wo...

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38. Symbio+uq[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 21:35:14
>>jdmore+gk
The OECD puts it at around 35% for a single worker, and 30% for a one-earner married couple with two children.

Even if they spend their entire income on taxable goods and services — which is very unlikely, as rent/mortgage doesn't have VAT — that would mean 21% of the remaining amount were taxed, so 55-50%.

https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-netherlands...

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63. alista+ot[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 21:48:15
>>jdmore+gk
For reference, total tax revenue (at all levels) is around 25% in the US. Compared to around 37% in the Netherlands and 33% across OECD. By this metric, the US has the 4th lowest overall tax rates in the OECD (above only Mexico, Ireland, and Chile).

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxe...

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71. Aunche+Nu[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 21:53:41
>>retrac+5q
The US has one of the most progressive tax rates of any nation. Not only do we not have a VAT, but also the top 10% pay over 70% of all income taxes. I don't think that it's a coincidence that the American government seems especially inefficient at spending money.

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/summary-latest-fe...

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77. piafra+Cv[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 21:57:58
>>bojan+Ct
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/software-engineer-salary-...

> The estimated total pay for a Software Engineer is $140,779 per year in the United States area, with an average salary of $118,761 per year. These numbers represent the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. The estimated additional pay is $22,017 per year. Additional pay could include cash bonus, commission, tips, and profit sharing. The "Most Likely Range" represents values that exist within the 25th and 75th percentile of all pay data available for this role

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82. theoss+iw[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 22:00:28
>>Aunche+Nu
Income taxation is not a good proxy for all taxation. If you look at the effective taxation of some of the richest individuals in America, you'll see they pay far less than income tax percentages would lead you to believe [1].

[1]: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trov...

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85. jkestn+cx[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 22:05:19
>>MBlume+Im
One of the nice things about Texas is that it has a law against that. Tell your reps to get something similar passed. https://letgrow.org/texas-becomes-third-state-to-enshrine-re...

I'm reminded of how Georgia will pay foster parents of homeless kids more than it'd cost to simply put a roof over those kids' families heads. https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-housing-assistanc...

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111. tmnvix+hC[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 22:35:10
>>kasey_+1u
I'm not from the US, but just zoomed into a random spot in what I assume is a typical shopping district in suburban Atlanta[1]. Can't imagine many young kids safely walking or biking around there. Compare a local shopping district near me[2]. Plenty of young kids walking and biking to school here alone and in groups.

[1] https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@33.8644514,-84.5949946,3a,75y...

[2] https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-41.2953813,174.7673872,3a,75...

edit: Might add that close to those shops in [2] there is a large botanic garden with play area and stream, one small and one very large reserve with native bush and an abundance of mountain bike tracks, a playing field, the central city area with cafes, many theatres, galleries, a library, and all sorts of other things that a child can make use of without supervision. All of this is within 5 minutes walk of those shops. Within 10 minutes walk there is the waterfront and a very safe swimming beach.

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115. asonet+rE[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 22:47:51
>>JohnFe+Kl
> in my area none of this is actually true

That's wonderful you live in place where children are can roam freely without being injured or killed by drivers. But this is a real threat in most of the US. Being killed in a motor vehicle crash is the second highest cause of death among children and adolescents. (It was the highest until 2020 when firearm-related injuries overtook them.[1])

For every 100,000 people the Netherlands has 3.8 annual traffic deaths, the US has 12.9, and Libera (the worst I could find[2]) has 35.9. That means when it comes to traffic deaths the US is 3.4x more deadly than the Netherlands and Liberia is 2.8x more deadly than the US.

I bike with my kids and let them walk to school and we talk about how to manage these risks. But being near roads in the US is less safe than most other developed countries by a statistically significant margin.

[1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...

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127. tzs+cO[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 23:55:14
>>asonet+rE
Most of that in the US is children who were riding in a car that crashes.

The number of children who are killed by cars as pedestrians or bicyclists is much lower. In 2021 for example it was 176 pedestrian children and 38 bicyclist children [1].

[1] https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/...

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130. kasey_+eT[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-15 00:30:59
>>tmnvix+hC
But there are no schools or houses there?

I’m not arguing that there are places that are pedestrian unfriendly in the US or even that there are more places per capita like that in the US.

I’m just saying it would be weird for homes and schools to be placed in those locales, and even weirder for governmental officials to take action against kids walking in appropriate locales.

Here is the shopping district nearest me: https://maps.app.goo.gl/SUZCyUHuGbCAwcYT7?g_st=ic

And here is a place that is inappropriate for pedestrians near you https://maps.app.goo.gl/aLdDyWdbFq6vUG6X9?g_st=ic

Within 5 minutes of my area are at least 5 parks/play lots, a beach and a library.

Theaters, cafes and galleries are on that street.

Within 1 mile of that location is a 550 acre public park with all manner of facilities and less than 2 miles away is a 370 acre park.

Thats not mentioning the museums and university facilities near here.

None of that is to flex it’s just to say a random sampling is not an appropriate retort. The US can obviously be less car centric but to imply that it’s impossible or strange for kids to be outside on there own in the US is a wild assertion and anyone making it needs to provide extraordinary proof.

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148. hooper+Ge1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-15 03:51:37
>>ambich+sz
Your right! I'm wrong :)

Source showing I'm wrong and giving more context: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-09/how-long-is-too-long-...

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164. asonet+hj2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-15 14:23:28
>>tzs+cO
That's an interesting point I need to think about. I do wonder how the deaths would compare to the number of trips taken, because children in the US take significantly fewer trips by bike than children in the Netherlands. Given that pedestrian deaths were at a 40 year high[1] in the US last year, I wonder if the relatively smaller number of children killed is simply a reflection of the low number of children walking.

I can say though that the few times I've ridden on the road with my children were the most stressful of my life, I have never done it since, and it made me completely understand why I no longer see any other children or parents doing it.

[1] https://www.vox.com/23784549/pedestrian-deaths-traffic-safet...

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