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[parent] [thread] 46 comments
1. thiago+(OP)[view] [source] 2024-01-31 17:03:17
Y... ikes!

It's about time Y Combinator has executives who aren't so busy with politics. It gives the whole incubator, startup scene, etc, a bad name.

The good ol' days are over. I still have in my mind Y Combinator of Paul Graham (a man wise with his words), but given that we've already had even Sam Altman in control of it.

I'm guessing YC nowadays is not that different from private equity/VCs like A16z, which enjoy having their fingers on everything. Typically, it is stuff they don't know much about and look plain stupid.

I hope PG can bring the good ol' days back someday, when it was about entrepreneurship, having people laser-focused on building disruptive companies.

replies(8): >>tootie+A1 >>amadeu+g3 >>etc-ho+h3 >>startu+b6 >>JohnFe+G51 >>sidibe+Wh2 >>ajmurm+404 >>762236+hG4
2. tootie+A1[view] [source] 2024-01-31 17:08:44
>>thiago+(OP)
The actual tweet was a few days ago. I can't believe he wasn't instantly fired. I know firing a CEO is a bit complicated, but this should have warranted a quick response. Has YC even issued a statement? Has Tan apologized?
replies(3): >>thiago+5O >>maeil+BJ1 >>tim333+kt2
3. amadeu+g3[view] [source] 2024-01-31 17:14:18
>>thiago+(OP)
> GRAHAM: No, no, no, politics. The problems with San Francisco are entirely due to a small number of terrible politicians. It’s all because Ed Lee died. The mayor, Ed Lee, was a reasonable person. Up till the point where Ed Lee died, San Francisco seemed like a utopia. It was like when Gates left Microsoft, and things rapidly reverted to the mean. Although in San Francisco’s case, way below the mean, and so it’s not that it didn’t take that much to ruin San Francisco. It’s really, if you just replaced about five supervisors, San Francisco would be instantly a fabulously better city.

> COWEN: Isn’t it the voters you need to replace? Those people got elected, reelected.

> GRAHAM: Well, the reason San Francisco fundamentally is so broken is that the supervisors have so much power, and supervisor elections, you can win by a couple hundred votes. All you need to do is have this hard core of crazy left-wing supporters who will absolutely support you, no matter what, and turn out to vote.

> Everybody else is like, “Oh, local election doesn’t matter. I’m not going to bother.” [laughs] It’s a uniquely weird situation that wasn’t really visible. It was always there, but it wasn’t visible until Ed Lee died. Now, we’ve reverted to what that situation produces, which is a disaster.

https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/paul-graham/

replies(3): >>microm+N3 >>blendo+qn1 >>tim333+3t2
4. etc-ho+h3[view] [source] 2024-01-31 17:14:19
>>thiago+(OP)
Capitalism runs every aspect of our lives.

It's impossible for commentary from a person who controls a vast amount of capital to not be political.

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5. microm+N3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:16:06
>>amadeu+g3
the sage wisdom of "the problem with politics is that the people who get the most votes win"
replies(1): >>nemoth+s8
6. startu+b6[view] [source] 2024-01-31 17:26:27
>>thiago+(OP)
It is admirable that Gary Tan loves his home in SF so much. And that he is engaged into making SF better. But SF, getting wasted, engaging into politics is not SV.

Wish we could disentangle flies from sausages and move YC office back to Mountain View, where it belongs.

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7. nemoth+s8[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:34:40
>>microm+N3
I get you are being sarcastic, but the real problem is people don't vote and you see this at every level of government office. Other than the president, it's hard to engage people (which I don't really fault them for) and so you end up with politicians - all across the field - who do nothing but pander to the most extreme voters.
replies(2): >>microm+Zc >>Affric+iw1
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8. microm+Zc[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:54:09
>>nemoth+s8
That's not what he's saying in the quote though, he's mad that the people who are engaged are people that don't agree with him and dismisses voters as "crazy"

He even goes as far to call this "broken" — it's literally democracy.

replies(2): >>Zak+SE >>rstuar+xK
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9. Zak+SE[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 20:11:47
>>microm+Zc
A political and electoral system can have elections that are fair in principle but tend to produce results few are happy with in practice even when they voted for the winner. Is that democracy? Well, maybe, but I'd argue it's not doing democracy very well.

US presidential elections come to mind; the likely nominees of both major parties are viewed unfavorably by a majority in polls, but one of them is almost certainly going to win.

replies(1): >>microm+dD2
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10. rstuar+xK[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 20:41:41
>>microm+Zc
> it's literally democracy.

I guess it is the formal definition.

In Australia we have a slightly different version. We don't prevent the crazies from voting. Instead we insist everyone must vote, including the crazies. Turns out when you do that the non-crazy voters outnumber the rest by a considerable margin.

A weird thing happens when you make voting compulsory. Another bunch, which I now regard as crazy, insists they should be free to not vote. They get fined. (I have a vision of what would happen in the USA if someone proposed compulsory voting. It's far left and far right politicians who would be thrown out if the centre voted, inciting their following to riot in the streets, shouting "Freedom!")

It's kinda funny, because they are allowed to not vote. The actual requirement isn't to vote because it's impossible to police. The requirement is to turn up at the polling place and have your name recorded. You can write whatever you damned well please on the voting slip. After most elections the country gets to have a laugh at the insults and pornographic images that have been inscribed on those slips.

It's also funny because these crazies are insisting they have a right to not participate in the democracy. And they don't. Those that do participate then pass rules to fine them, and the non-participants get pissed off about that and demonstrate their now white hot anger by not voting again.

And I bet you thought I was being harsh for calling them crazy. It's like watching someone put their hand in a fire, and not remove it because it hurts.

And that is an excellent example of why compulsory voting works. The voices of the crazies literally get drowned out by the people who would otherwise be too lazy to vote. Or perhaps they just figure they are in the centre, know stuff all about the candidates, and most other people are reasonable like them so they won't change the outcome. But it turns out if most normal, reasonable, uninformed people remove themselves from machinery of democracy, what you get left with is crazies voting for crazies.

replies(2): >>microm+va1 >>bigger+4s1
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11. thiago+5O[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 20:57:40
>>tootie+A1
No idea, I have a similar thought. But I'm not from America, where people are free to say whatever stupid thing they want, no matter how high stakes their job is.
12. JohnFe+G51[view] [source] 2024-01-31 22:35:59
>>thiago+(OP)
> It gives the whole incubator, startup scene, etc, a bad name.

And that scene already has a bad name. And let's not forget that he's also an EA acolyte. Every time I think that the image of SV couldn't get much worse, it does.

replies(1): >>ajmurm+o04
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13. microm+va1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 23:04:36
>>rstuar+xK
If people are too lazy to vote and yet complain about the outcome of elections... who's really the crazy one?
replies(2): >>Vegeno+mh1 >>Ludwig+gU1
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14. Vegeno+mh1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 23:44:26
>>microm+va1
The point is that most people just aren't that engaged with politics, period. Most people who aren't voting aren't complaining about who is getting voted in.
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15. blendo+qn1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 00:32:38
>>amadeu+g3

   GRAHAM> … It’s all because Ed Lee died
To believe that Ed Lee is some kind of political white knight instead of merely a Willie Brown/Gavin Newsom/London Breed/Kamala Harris machine politician seems historically naive, if not blindly ignorant.

Similar to Garry Tan in that.

replies(1): >>tim333+Hs2
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16. bigger+4s1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 01:14:20
>>rstuar+xK
I'm also Australian but I do not think our style of compulsory voting would be popular in the US, my understanding is the way elections are managed in the US suppresses the voter turnout.

For example in the US they have their elections on a Tuesday (in Australia it is a Saturday), this strikes me as suboptimal if you want the most people to vote then you should hold the election at a time that is convenient for the largest number of people, which is not in the middle of a regular working day.

Australia also has pre-polling (i.e. you can turn up to a polling station and vote before the nominated "election day") and Postal voting (both of which are to my understanding extremely controversial in the US).

I believe in the US you also need to register to vote and you have to take steps to maintain your registration. again that is an added barrier that creates more friction.

Australia also has Preferential voting, I do not believe US elections use this method.

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17. Affric+iw1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 02:05:42
>>nemoth+s8
Compulsory voting is an option.
replies(3): >>infamo+yy1 >>kjkjad+kJ1 >>rvba+2z5
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18. infamo+yy1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 02:29:59
>>Affric+iw1
Most people already don't vote voluntarily.

Forcing the uninformed and uninterested to vote has never yielded better results by any measure.

replies(2): >>pas+WA1 >>EasyMa+dO4
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19. pas+WA1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 03:01:55
>>infamo+yy1
it would at least help with making voting the default, also it would be normal to insert it into a schedule for employers, have enough polling places, etc. (okay, okay, I know, of course it's terminal naivete, fascist cumbombs would continue to smear their nastiness all over anyway. yet defaults matter. laws matter.)
replies(1): >>kjkjad+pJ1
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20. kjkjad+kJ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 04:59:12
>>Affric+iw1
The issue is voters are uneducated. You get compulsory voting you get the same issue with the california prop system scaled out: where people are given a choice and vote on what feels right from the proposition name and two sentence description alone. Research and looking into bias be damned.
replies(1): >>Affric+jP1
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21. kjkjad+pJ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 05:00:15
>>pas+WA1
In california you have two weeks to vote in some precincts. Its more time consuming to buy milk than it is to vote for many.
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22. maeil+BJ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 05:04:09
>>tootie+A1
No repercussions for violent threats to innocent people when made by higherups in SV tech is par for the course nowadays.

Take OpenAI's Head of Research (quite the public role given they're a research company) openly calling for genocide in Gaza, asking to "finish them", "More! No mercy!" including civilians, over a series of 80 deranged tweets. [1] Zero repercussions, still happily heading research at a company whose supposed objective is developing AGI for the benefit of mankind.

Also very quickly scrubbed off of HN [2].

[1] >>39124666

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20231226171217/https://news.ycom...

replies(1): >>lukan+PT1
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23. Affric+jP1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 06:19:44
>>kjkjad+kJ1
No, it's not.

Compulsory voting drives engagement. Representative democracy saves the public from themselves.

The vast majority of people vote for who they trust.

replies(2): >>kjkjad+8V3 >>roelsc+Cs5
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24. lukan+PT1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 07:18:24
>>maeil+BJ1
"openly calling for genocide in Gaza, asking to "finish them", "More! No mercy!" including civilians"

Can you share a quote, where he literally does that? I only read, that he is talking about Hamas. And explicitely not about civilians.

replies(1): >>albedo+fU4
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25. Ludwig+gU1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 07:23:02
>>microm+va1
How is that crazy? I doubt that national elections usually have voting margins of a single vote.
26. sidibe+Wh2[view] [source] 2024-02-01 11:53:13
>>thiago+(OP)
As if PG isn't doing the same things on Twitter. I notice both of them are always grovelling to Musk trying to get his retweets or quotes
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27. tim333+Hs2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 13:26:22
>>blendo+qn1
He didn't say he was a political white night, just a reasonable politician that got replaced with unreasonable ones. These things happen.
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28. tim333+3t2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 13:28:58
>>amadeu+g3
Seems Graham and Tan had similar views of the problem, just Graham is diplomatic about it and doesn't go on drunk rants.
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29. tim333+kt2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 13:31:05
>>tootie+A1
Tan has apologized:

>“I apologize to the Board of Supervisors for my comments late last night in a post,” Tan wrote. “There is no place, no excuse and no reason for this type of speech and charged language in discourse. I am sorry for my words and regret my poor decision. I love San Francisco. I know the community will hold me accountable and keep focused on our true mission: making San Francisco a vibrant, prosperous and safe place.”

Having seen him talk on video he seems like a decent guy who is not very good at dealing with conficts. See eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4yMc99fpfY&t=630s

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30. microm+dD2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 14:31:36
>>Zak+SE
US presidential elections aren't "really" democracy IMO, we've had a long string of presidents that didn't even win the popular vote
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31. kjkjad+8V3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 20:51:18
>>Affric+jP1
Look at Australia. They have compulsory voting and a government that sells off natural resources to the highest bidder same as many others. Many Australians just get drunk on election day and write in “banana.” You can’t force people to care about something using the law that they don’t already care about.
replies(2): >>Affric+XQ4 >>antihi+0T4
32. ajmurm+404[view] [source] 2024-02-01 21:15:57
>>thiago+(OP)
"If those techies don't like SF politics, maybe they should get involved in their local community!"

"No! Not like that!"

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33. ajmurm+o04[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 21:17:56
>>JohnFe+G51
I always hear people use EA as a negative term now. Is there actual philosophical criticism of EA or is this just because SBF subscribed to it?
34. 762236+hG4[view] [source] 2024-02-02 02:27:21
>>thiago+(OP)
They don't want to be involved with politics. But they're the type of people that have agency, and San Francisco is in horrible shape, so they feel compelled to help turn the city around.
replies(1): >>EasyMa+2O4
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35. EasyMa+2O4[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-02 03:32:41
>>762236+hG4
San Fran could be turned around in a few years if they cracked down on crime, especially low level crime, homelessness, and revamped zoning laws and regulations to be advantageous to builders instead of NIMBYs.
replies(1): >>762236+uW5
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36. EasyMa+dO4[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-02 03:34:22
>>infamo+yy1
that's an interesting theory but nearly impossible to prove, thus safe from scrutiny?
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37. Affric+XQ4[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-02 04:02:00
>>kjkjad+8V3
Rates of informal voting of 5.1 % in the house of reps and 3.4 % in the senate nationally at the most recent federal election put paid to that comment.

With all due respect, I find it hard to believe anyone with any knowledge of Australian elections would write your comment.

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38. antihi+0T4[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-02 04:22:17
>>kjkjad+8V3
To be fair Australia doesn't really have a choice in the matter due to forces outside of the country. Any political leader who tries this doesn't remain leader for very long.

Most of the public is aware of this, and will probably continue to accept it as long as the general standard of living doesn't fall to much.

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39. albedo+fU4[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-02 04:34:24
>>lukan+PT1
The post you are responding to linked to the archived tweets.
replies(1): >>lukan+Eu6
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40. roelsc+Cs5[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-02 10:36:52
>>Affric+jP1
> Compulsory voting drives engagement.

Citation needed. I live in a country with compulsory voting, and I don't see any indication that it drives engagement. Lots of people only go voting because they have to. They simply vote for the man or woman they think looks best, or they have seen on TV and said something funny, or stuff like that.

> The vast majority of people vote for who they trust.

But in many many cases without really looking into who is trustworthy.

replies(1): >>Affric+dT7
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41. rvba+2z5[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-02 11:49:12
>>Affric+iw1
Dilute the votes of those who care with votes of random idiots who would never vote if not forced to and who make their decisions randomly or based on populism.

You can as well add 30% random votes, although those would be spread equally between candidates, not based on color of their hair, or random fake quote on the ineternet

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42. 762236+uW5[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-02 14:41:47
>>EasyMa+2O4
Right, and since the progressives in power disagree with this, Garry is getting involved to try to get people elected that do agree.
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43. lukan+Eu6[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-02 17:06:05
>>albedo+fU4
Yes, but I did not see any of the claims of demanding to kill civilians.

They were still way over the line and he apologized. But I did not see any of the claims of "openly calling for genocide in Gaza". Did you? You may link some quotes then. Possible I missed them, but I rather think, this was the usual hyperbole.

"innocent civilians" was the only questionable phrase, but still not at all a clear demand to kill civilians, rather a doubt whether armed civilians, who want to kill jews, should count as civilians.

replies(1): >>albedo+S68
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44. Affric+dT7[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-03 00:48:42
>>roelsc+Cs5
Have you lived in countries without compulsory voting? Have you worked in electoral politics? Would the population be more engaged without compulsory voting? Different countries do not amount to controlled experiments. Brasil, North Korea, Belgium, and Australia are all very different countries. All have compulsory voting.

> But in many many cases without really looking into who is trustworthy.

> They simply vote for the man or woman they think looks best, or they have seen on TV and said something funny, or stuff like that.

These two things are largely linked. If one believes that one can view the true nature of reality and divine the future then one is in for perpetual disappointment with politicians. Trustworthiness can only be known a posteri. A priori we only have heuristics. The reason for the existence of representative democracy is so that politicians do the work of politics.

One may not always agree with the electorate but my experience tells me that compulsory voting does drive engagement. It changes how political parties spend money and who they use that money to try and influence. Engagement in countries with compulsory voting is different to how it would be in the same country without compulsory voting.

The average member of the electorate possesses no expertise in any single field and is ignorant of everything. The average member of the electorate holds no single opinion. This is a good thing.

Whether people's beliefs are right or wrong is one thing but what you don't want is a bunch of radicals (of any persuasion) who have made the leap of faith which prevents them from reversing course. When large proportions of a society is radicalised to hold extremist and exclusive political opinions, that's when voters cannot be convinced. This rarely ends up good for society and occasionally ends violently.

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45. albedo+S68[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-03 03:48:45
>>lukan+Eu6
Wait are you defining all open calls for genocide in Gaza to be the strictly verbatim phrase "I am openly calling for genocide in Gaza"? You are out of your depth here.
replies(1): >>lukan+1u8
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46. lukan+1u8[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-03 09:29:35
>>albedo+S68
Let's make it simple:

Can you share a quote here, that you think was a open call for genocide in Gaza? Then we can debate concretely that and not something meta.

replies(1): >>albedo+kUe
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47. albedo+kUe[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-05 17:04:04
>>lukan+1u8
Nobody is debating or wanting to debate you. Certainly you are used to this.
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