zlacker

[parent] [thread] 7 comments
1. microm+(OP)[view] [source] 2024-01-31 17:54:09
That's not what he's saying in the quote though, he's mad that the people who are engaged are people that don't agree with him and dismisses voters as "crazy"

He even goes as far to call this "broken" — it's literally democracy.

replies(2): >>Zak+Tr >>rstuar+yx
2. Zak+Tr[view] [source] 2024-01-31 20:11:47
>>microm+(OP)
A political and electoral system can have elections that are fair in principle but tend to produce results few are happy with in practice even when they voted for the winner. Is that democracy? Well, maybe, but I'd argue it's not doing democracy very well.

US presidential elections come to mind; the likely nominees of both major parties are viewed unfavorably by a majority in polls, but one of them is almost certainly going to win.

replies(1): >>microm+eq2
3. rstuar+yx[view] [source] 2024-01-31 20:41:41
>>microm+(OP)
> it's literally democracy.

I guess it is the formal definition.

In Australia we have a slightly different version. We don't prevent the crazies from voting. Instead we insist everyone must vote, including the crazies. Turns out when you do that the non-crazy voters outnumber the rest by a considerable margin.

A weird thing happens when you make voting compulsory. Another bunch, which I now regard as crazy, insists they should be free to not vote. They get fined. (I have a vision of what would happen in the USA if someone proposed compulsory voting. It's far left and far right politicians who would be thrown out if the centre voted, inciting their following to riot in the streets, shouting "Freedom!")

It's kinda funny, because they are allowed to not vote. The actual requirement isn't to vote because it's impossible to police. The requirement is to turn up at the polling place and have your name recorded. You can write whatever you damned well please on the voting slip. After most elections the country gets to have a laugh at the insults and pornographic images that have been inscribed on those slips.

It's also funny because these crazies are insisting they have a right to not participate in the democracy. And they don't. Those that do participate then pass rules to fine them, and the non-participants get pissed off about that and demonstrate their now white hot anger by not voting again.

And I bet you thought I was being harsh for calling them crazy. It's like watching someone put their hand in a fire, and not remove it because it hurts.

And that is an excellent example of why compulsory voting works. The voices of the crazies literally get drowned out by the people who would otherwise be too lazy to vote. Or perhaps they just figure they are in the centre, know stuff all about the candidates, and most other people are reasonable like them so they won't change the outcome. But it turns out if most normal, reasonable, uninformed people remove themselves from machinery of democracy, what you get left with is crazies voting for crazies.

replies(2): >>microm+wX >>bigger+5f1
◧◩
4. microm+wX[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 23:04:36
>>rstuar+yx
If people are too lazy to vote and yet complain about the outcome of elections... who's really the crazy one?
replies(2): >>Vegeno+n41 >>Ludwig+hH1
◧◩◪
5. Vegeno+n41[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 23:44:26
>>microm+wX
The point is that most people just aren't that engaged with politics, period. Most people who aren't voting aren't complaining about who is getting voted in.
◧◩
6. bigger+5f1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 01:14:20
>>rstuar+yx
I'm also Australian but I do not think our style of compulsory voting would be popular in the US, my understanding is the way elections are managed in the US suppresses the voter turnout.

For example in the US they have their elections on a Tuesday (in Australia it is a Saturday), this strikes me as suboptimal if you want the most people to vote then you should hold the election at a time that is convenient for the largest number of people, which is not in the middle of a regular working day.

Australia also has pre-polling (i.e. you can turn up to a polling station and vote before the nominated "election day") and Postal voting (both of which are to my understanding extremely controversial in the US).

I believe in the US you also need to register to vote and you have to take steps to maintain your registration. again that is an added barrier that creates more friction.

Australia also has Preferential voting, I do not believe US elections use this method.

◧◩◪
7. Ludwig+hH1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 07:23:02
>>microm+wX
How is that crazy? I doubt that national elections usually have voting margins of a single vote.
◧◩
8. microm+eq2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 14:31:36
>>Zak+Tr
US presidential elections aren't "really" democracy IMO, we've had a long string of presidents that didn't even win the popular vote
[go to top]