zlacker

Your solution is to make Jews a minority in their own country? The entire reason Israel was created is to have a safe place for Jews to exist and having the power to defend themselves.

Imagining that just “tearing down the walls”, and “why can’t we all just gel along” will work is pretty naive, especially considering history .

>>halfli+(OP)
The solution is to end tribalism, and nothing more. The rest of your comment imagines and argues against something not stated.

Do you want peace or domination? You can’t have both, and that is not naive.

>>austin+Y2
Tribalism is human nature. You simply can’t end it. And pointing it as a solution for the Palestinian problem is just as likely as “saying let’s colonize mars”, both are very nice ideas, but only feasible in movies.

>>halfli+xh
What’s your solution? Domination does not appear to be working on any level and has severely eroded Israel’s credibility with its allies.

Qualifying apartheid and sadist acts as human nature or that solving problems is too tough to bother trying sounds pretty weak. These are positions guilty people take to excuse bad behavior.

>>austin+Bl
Same solution that was offered to Germany and Japan after WW2. Demilitarize, deradicalize, erect a technocratic regime, supported by western nations. And after a few years they can have their own sovereignty. Right now the hate is far too great and the capabilities are far too extreme to just let the Palestinians enter freely into Israeli territory

>>halfli+bo
Think about it in reverse. If Palestinians and their land are emancipated into Israel then those illegal settlements in the West Bank will no longer be illegal.

That imbalance is a prime example why so much of the world believes the current situation, or even just comments to equivalent effect by senior Israeli leaders, is apartheid. If most of the world believes the current situation to be apartheid then its no stretch of the imagination to condemn words or action to remove, destabilize, or eradicate Palestinian prosperity as potential acts of genocide. The same qualifiers and equivocations were used by the aggressors to qualify genocidal acts that occurred in the Balkans in the '90s.

If Israel and Hamas leaders really wanted greater security then they would have already solved for these imbalances. Security is not the primary motivation though, domination is.

>>halfli+(OP)
Its not Naive, précisely regarding history. Look at how wars stopped in Europe beween or even within countries. People just started to get along after being tired of destroying each other.

The problem that prevents it in this case is religious extremists in both sides. For example there will never be peace as long as the israeli gov support west bank settlements toward the goal of a "great Israel". They are all extremely explicit about it and its not a conspiracy theory.

>>halfli+bo
> Same solution that was offered to Germany and Japan after WW2. Demilitarize, deradicalize, erect a technocratic regime, supported by western nations.

In which borders would this demilitarised state exist?

This is more or less what Biden is currently trying to do. The Israelis aren't interested.

>>halfli+(OP)
I can understand the need for a Jewish state. (Though wouldn't the same apply to other disenfranchised groups? Why not a Roma or a Native American state?)

What I don't understand is why that state had to be erected in a land where people were already living, against the explicit wishes of that population, and in the end pushed through with military force.

Or rather, I do understand: This was how the world powers of the late 19th century were thinking and operating. They thought they had the god-given right to redraw the world map as they saw fit, in Africa in the 19th, and in the middle east in the early 20th century. But this mindset is what everywhere else we renounce as colonialism today - except for some reason here.

I think present-day Israelis do have a valid claim to the land, because they were born there and spent their entire life in that land. Forcing them to move away would amount just as much to expulsion than demanding the same from Palestinians. (Not even speaking of things that would amount to not just expulsion but genocide)

What I don't understand is what would give them the exclusive claim to the land or the right to drive others off it.