zlacker

"Today we are faced with an Islamist cause, led by Hamas. Obviously, this kind of cause is absolute and allows no form of negotiation."

Lost me there, because this is not the framing that matches reality. There were several instances where Hamas was willing to form unity government with Fatah/PLO, to share power, negotiate, to do things like that. It's first and foremost a national liberation movement. The movement itself would not even exist had not been for the occupation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah%E2%80%93Hamas_reconcilia...

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full

I didn't read further, because assuming lack of negotiation, lack of pragmatism, of being able to participate in politics semi-normally, etc. is just a crucial point.

Especially while not recognizing intense pressure by the West for this political process to not exist, to suppress it, for it to fail. If you suppress politics, you get violent conflict eventually.

>>megous+(OP)
Edit: My this comment is being downvoted despite stating just a plain fact. Hopefully the downvoters can do everyone a service by explaining what's wrong with it.

Like you said, HAMAS exists solely for the sake of resisting Jewish occupation [0], from the river to the sea, which also means the extermination of Israel and Jews [1]. And their conviction stems from their religion, Islam, which allows them to persist despite all the opposition on earth because they are hoping for a reward in heaven[2].

And of course Israel won't allow itself to be exterminated ( hopefully this point is clear enough, no citation needed). So how can there be negotiation?

0. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/ha...

1. https://www.ajc.org/translatehate/From-the-River-to-the-Sea

2. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL03124515/

>>megous+(OP)
He says exactly the same. There were in the past, but not today. He says the same thing for Israel - switched from secular to biblical and thus unable to compromise.

>>nsoonh+G6
How come? I don't know, but HAMAS clearly negotiates and does pragmatic things. It's a group of people with moderate and more radical elements like any other largish group.

> Like you said, HAMAS exists solely for the sake of resisting Jewish occupation [0], from the river to the sea, which also means the extermination of Israel and Jews [1].

Quite a jump.

>>megous+gU
HAMAS pragmatism serves one purpose, the destruction of Israel, as outlined in their charter.

In 2017 they updated their charter to recognize the 1967 border but still not recognize Israel ( apparently anyone can be on other side of the fence except Israel). And lest you harbor any normalization fantasy, they kept up the aggression by fire rocket into Israel from time to time, which finally accumulated in the 10/7 attack.

>>locall+ax
I think why Israel's current government will not compromise is very pragmatic. It failed too badly in preventing this escalation, and has little support. Look at those numbers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_I...

Netanyahu is basically done and gone. His only hold on power is continuing the extermination campaign against Hamas and their families, until some miracle reversal in the polling numbers. His only mandate currently is for the "war".

Additionally, Israel doesn't need to compromise, due to large amount of outside support (in the form of material and political (vetoes in UN SC, etc.) support for its extermination campaign, and the sanctions against Hamas), and due to the massive power difference between it and Hamas.

Biblical stuff is largely a smokescreen/justification for pragmatic matters as far as government/politics goes. And maybe some ideological food for non-secular reserve soldiers to be more willing to go get maimed in Gaza.

How did it turn biblical, with 45% of Israeli Jews being secular, and 27% of population not being Jewish?