zlacker

I have spent days researching the history of this. The problem in its entirety is Zionism. The only way for Zionism to remain, is for Israel to be permanently at war. Research Likud, read about Netanyahu, Zionism is the contagion and a Forever War is their answer.

Should the Palestinians have agency and self determination?

>>nerpde+(OP)
> Should the Palestinians have agency and self determination?

It doesnt matter what they "should" have. Israel wont give it to them while they think it would undermine their security, and no one has the ability to force them to.

>>HDThor+B3
Sure it does! If we can't agree on what should be, we can never make anything happen. And we all do have agency on how the Palestinians are treated. To deny that is to be complicit.

>>HDThor+B3
Of course West has the power. The generational shift in US is very clear - GenZ openly does not want to have anyrhing to do with israel. It will carry on and increase with everry next generation. How are you gonna sustain israel in this kind of enviromnent?

>>Someon+4P
I don't know, it's a good question and it might be unsustainable. Another question is how do you dismantle a country threatened by war and genocidal intentions on all borders , a country that's a nuclear power? What's the end game here - let Israel die and hope the population makes it out OK and that Palestinians happily co exist with Israelis? While some use South Africa as an example where this happened peacefully, there are many more examples where this ended up in a huge massacres - Yugoslavia, Syria, Iraq etc. The realistic best case scenario for Israel is Israel collapsing and the vast majority of the Jews fleeing alive to wherever they can. Other scenarios are Jews getting massacred in huge numbers and even nuclear war.

>>weathe+481
The way things are going, the earlier West understands/accepts insustainability of current israel, the less bloody will be the end result. israel could even survive as a Jewish state, but that would require massive diplomatic effort of many forces.

>>Someon+B81
I think better plans need to be made for dismantling a country (that's what you're aiming at right?) in such a volatile part of the world. It can already be extremely bloody, as I said there are genocidal threats against Israel on all borders and Israel as a nuclear power can become genocidal too if it feels its own people are at risk of a second holocaust. Simply crippling Israel's economy so it collapses and hoping for the best sounds like a very bad idea to me.

>>weathe+Da1
Israel is already genocidal. I am not in fact aiming at dismantling israel. What I am saying this will happen anyway, if West won't change its approach.

>>Someon+Jy3
Is Hamas genocidal in your eyes? Genuinely curious.

>>weathe+cM3
Only one side is credibly an existential threat to the other

>>wahnfr+Zd5
Was Hamas genocidal on October 7th?

>>weathe+2J5
The first casualty of war is the truth. Many of the atrocious events by Hamas are not as clear cut as originally reported. It looks like the primary goal of Hamas was to capture hostages for a large scale prisoner exchange. The IDF over reacted and to suppress the capture of hostages, killing both Hamas fighters and Israeli citizens. I am describing the situation, not absolving anything or anyone.

Look for the analysis by Scott Ritter on Youtube.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hannibal+protocol+haaretz

I do not think outright murder of civilians was the goal of the October 7th attack.

>>nerpde+z87
Btw I wouldn’t share Ritter as a source even if you agree with the analysis - he’s compromised financially and ethically

>>wahnfr+kc7
Even if your claims are true, he has valuable insights and connects things in ways that others do not. The phrase "wouldn't share" is an interesting way to suppress a viewpoint.

I still watch mainstream news even though it is compromised financially, ethically and politically.