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Scientists discover near-Earth asteroid hours before it exploded over Berlin

submitted by Brajes+(OP) on 2024-01-23 14:05:37 | 88 points 46 comments
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replies(6): >>Porter+KU >>tocs3+QV >>throwa+KW >>gnicho+i01 >>gmusle+h21 >>737373+wv2
1. Porter+KU[view] [source] 2024-01-23 17:55:07
>>Brajes+(OP)
Headline: “…exploded over Berlin” Body: “…producing a bright but harmless fireball visible for miles around.”
replies(3): >>bluefl+XX >>Xylaka+x01 >>peddli+E01
2. tocs3+QV[view] [source] 2024-01-23 17:58:57
>>Brajes+(OP)
"but this one was unique because it was first detected by scientists roughly three hours before impact — only the eighth time that researchers have spotted one of these space rocks before it hit."

Maybe I did not read close enough but how is it "first"?

replies(3): >>kvdvee+5X >>terafl+cX >>feoren+e01
3. throwa+KW[view] [source] 2024-01-23 18:03:14
>>Brajes+(OP)
Really burying the important takeaway at the bottom:

Starting in 2025, the Vera C. Rubin Observatory in Chile — funded by the National Science Foundation — will catalog the solar system from the ground...

"It took us 200 years to discover all the asteroids we know to date, about 1.2 million asteroids," Mario Jurić, the Rubin Observatory's solar system discovery team lead and the director of the University of Washington's DiRAC Institute, told Astronomy. "In the first three to six months of Rubin, we will double that."

That's one additional ground based observatory coming online in the Southern hemisphere. If we get our act together and build a lot more of these and other space based observatories we're going to see the true scope of the "shooting gallery". We really need to raise public awareness of this, as a planet based civilization we are taking our chances by ignoring the problem and assuming everything will be fine for a hundred or a thousand more years. All of our efforts at averting a climate catastrophe will be for naught if we get smoked by a rock big enough to fill the atmosphere with particulate matter and drop global temperatures for years afterward let alone anything bigger resulting in global firestorms and tsunamis.

replies(3): >>oceanp+u11 >>hypert+Oj1 >>Ma8ee+Xx1
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4. kvdvee+5X[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 18:05:17
>>tocs3+QV
"first detected", meaning this asteroid wasn't detected before. They don't claim anything about earlier detection of other asteroids.
replies(1): >>s1arti+qt1
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5. terafl+cX[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 18:05:49
>>tocs3+QV
The word "first" in that sentence means the first detection of this asteroid, not that it was the first asteroid detected in the same way.
replies(1): >>s1arti+Ds1
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6. bluefl+XX[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 18:07:52
>>Porter+KU
Someone is getting paid for clicks.
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7. feoren+e01[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 18:16:28
>>tocs3+QV
The other responses actually have this a bit wrong: this was unique among "bright fireball" asteroid impacts, because before it impacted (second), it was (first) detected. "First" is referring to the order of events: detection first, impact second. Not referring to the first of its kind, or even the first detection of this asteroid. It's saying these types of impacts usually just appear in the sky without first being detected by observatories. Although it's clearly not "unique" if that's the 8th time this has happened. The article is just kinda poor quality.
8. gnicho+i01[view] [source] 2024-01-23 18:16:33
>>Brajes+(OP)
I was interested to learn about the mentioned 2013 meteor that resulted in injuries. Not sure how I didn't hear about that when it happened. My takeaway is that if you see something that looks like it's a bright fireball, close your eyes and turn away. And apparently move away from windows. Funny to see that the "duck and cover" exercises they do in schools are actually useful for (extremely rare) events like this. [1]

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelyabinsk_meteor

replies(2): >>zoklet+621 >>opello+KJ1
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9. Xylaka+x01[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 18:17:56
>>Porter+KU
It also wasn’t over Berlin, but like 60 kilometers away.
replies(1): >>sjsdai+1d1
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10. peddli+E01[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 18:18:36
>>Porter+KU
I really don’t see that as misleading. Do you? Evocative imagery for sure, but that’s surely less boring than “the specimen exhibited an incandescence of magnitude…”
replies(1): >>rzzzt+381
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11. oceanp+u11[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 18:21:10
>>throwa+KW
Doesn’t even need to be a planet killer, even a small object like the Tunguska event hitting a large city (Like NYC) would cost trillions in damage and millions of lives, the equivalent of a nuclear bomb going off. The cost to build some surveillance and technology to mitigate it would be far less.

And prevention wouldn’t require Bruce Willis to blow it up with nukes, like the DART mission all you’d need is to hit the space rock with a fast moving, small probe and alter its course by a millionth of a degree far enough out, could be the difference between hitting a city, landing in the ocean, or not hitting earth at all.

replies(4): >>vortic+mb1 >>lencas+Kg1 >>Michae+Up1 >>echoan+IK1
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12. zoklet+621[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 18:23:45
>>gnicho+i01
I'm surprised you didn't hear about it either. That was widely covered and talked about IRL at the time. Craziest thing I ever seen. All the dash cam videos just mesmerized me. I still think about it often.
replies(1): >>eichin+if1
13. gmusle+h21[view] [source] 2024-01-23 18:24:29
>>Brajes+(OP)
This one had 1m of diameter, so didn't manage to reach the ground. And by very far most of the ones that get close to Earth have less than 30m of diameter.

But the problem of late discovery are the ones that are (far?) bigger than this ones, the ones that manage to reach the ground in sizes much bigger than a pebble. Are we detecting all the dangerous ones (and little less dangerous but big enough), and with enough anticipation? Had been in recent times surprises of big enough asteroids passing close enough?

I suppose that in the end, we are playing with odds. It didn't happened for long enough, most that get close is harmless, and I suppose that if there are some harder to be detected (i.e. darker/low reflective ones?) they should not be the majority. But from time to time we have events that reminds us the bet we are playing.

replies(1): >>737373+bv2
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14. rzzzt+381[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 18:47:08
>>peddli+E01
It boils down to whether the main goal is to have fun or read something factual. If "west of Berlin near Nennhausen" === "over Berlin", I don't know what to say.
replies(2): >>Albert+re1 >>peddli+vc2
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15. vortic+mb1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 19:00:16
>>oceanp+u11
I read somewhere about the idea of sending white paint to coat one side this would cause one side to get hotter and cause the asteroid to spin sending it off course.

I'm quite sure it wouldn't work but was an interesting idea.

replies(1): >>readyp+Je1
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16. sjsdai+1d1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 19:08:27
>>Xylaka+x01
And I live 2 hours' drive outside of DC but if I'm talking to someone not from the region I just say "DC area" if asked where I live.

It's pretty common to reference a nearby place name that is well known/recognized versus a place name that might be more accurate but leaves most receivers/readers/etc thinking "...where?"

replies(1): >>yencab+FP1
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17. Albert+re1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 19:13:22
>>rzzzt+381
Same as “Gigafactory Berlin”.
replies(1): >>rzzzt+Sh1
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18. readyp+Je1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 19:14:43
>>vortic+mb1
The problem is that they rotate. Maybe an electronically controlled jet that triggers only when aligned in the right direction.
replies(1): >>trucul+yG1
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19. eichin+if1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 19:16:42
>>zoklet+621
Yeah, it made a lot of mainstream media. (It was also pretty much the only thing on space-youtube and russian-dashcam-youtube for weeks :-) Sort of "The Dark Knight"-esque use of a massive array of distributed cameras as an observatory...
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20. lencas+Kg1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 19:22:18
>>oceanp+u11
Challenge accepted!
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21. rzzzt+Sh1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 19:26:43
>>Albert+re1
There's an agglomeration area around Berlin(-Brandenburg) which is similar to a sibling commenter's "DC area" example (of course smaller). The Gigafactory is just outside this imaginary dotted line; Nennhausen is way over to the West.
replies(1): >>Albert+0z1
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22. hypert+Oj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 19:33:01
>>throwa+KW
Wouldn't the most dangerous trajectories be the hardest to observe?

Of those 1.2 million orbits, how many are dangerous?

replies(2): >>lazide+qP1 >>737373+1u2
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23. Michae+Up1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 19:57:27
>>oceanp+u11
A Tunguska event exploding over Moscow could even trigger the 'Perimeter' system without human intervention. And likely most of the missiles are pre-programmed with US targets...
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24. s1arti+Ds1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 20:09:21
>>terafl+cX
then what imparts the "unique" characteristic?
replies(1): >>olddus+fT1
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25. s1arti+qt1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 20:12:56
>>kvdvee+5X
They do claim that this asteroid is somehow unique.

The best I can guess is that 8 of these have been detected before they hit, but only this one was detected 3 hours before it did. The rest must have been detected with longer or shorter times before impact (presumably longer).

Alternatively, perhaps it is unique because of its small size, at only 1 meter.

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26. Ma8ee+Xx1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 20:34:03
>>throwa+KW
> All of our efforts at averting a climate catastrophe…

Uh, which efforts?

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27. Albert+0z1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 20:38:37
>>rzzzt+Sh1
I see, just checked it up on a map and you are right of course, thanks for the correction.
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28. trucul+yG1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 21:10:56
>>readyp+Je1
Presumably it would be more efficient to use jet to stabilise it, so that the painted deflector can take effect
replies(1): >>zamada+1N1
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29. opello+KJ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 21:26:04
>>gnicho+i01
> Funny to see that the "duck and cover" exercises they do in schools are actually useful for (extremely rare) events like this.

I thought we knew that despite modern criticism that duck and cover was effective for those outside of some range given a nuclear explosion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_and_cover#Efficacy_during...

I also think that those exercises haven't been done in schools for quite some time. I never did them despite plenty of fire and severe weather drills.

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30. echoan+IK1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 21:30:33
>>oceanp+u11
The probability of that is really low though, theres not a lot of area with dense population when looking at the whole earth. And for your redirection to work, you would need really precise trajectory predictions while still very far away so a small impulse is enough.
replies(1): >>Gow887+QC9
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31. zamada+1N1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 21:40:55
>>trucul+yG1
If you can detect it early enough an absolutely miniscule amount of force can multiply over time to an enormous difference in position later on. Much less force than would be required to stop it from spinning or sending material to act as a deflector.
replies(1): >>willma+zU3
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32. lazide+qP1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 21:51:53
>>hypert+Oj1
Don’t forget, occasionally the trajectories get perturbed.

If it helps you sleep at night, over the billions of years earth has been in its current orbit, it’s already ‘eaten’ all the high risk asteroids.

What we’re dealing with now are very much the long-long-long tail hazards.

Which do exist.

But the earths crust was molten in it’s early life due in some large part due to persistent and high volume infalling asteroids, and that time is long gone.

replies(1): >>willma+2W3
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33. yencab+FP1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 21:52:43
>>sjsdai+1d1
The article did not say "Berlin area", so your "DC area" is not the same.

If something happens over your house, is it "over Washington"?

replies(1): >>sjsdai+Qv3
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34. olddus+fT1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 22:12:10
>>s1arti+Ds1
I think "unique" is being used in the figurative sense of "very unusual".
replies(1): >>s1arti+1X1
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35. s1arti+1X1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-23 22:33:50
>>olddus+fT1
Interesting, I have literally never head it used that way. Doubly so in the same sentence as the comparable events.

Im not trying to debate, just surprised that is even considered an option.

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36. peddli+vc2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-24 00:14:59
>>rzzzt+381
Porque no los dos? That's a false dichotomy.
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37. 737373+1u2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-24 02:41:20
>>hypert+Oj1
Only a small fraction of the 1.2 million are potentially concerning, most known asteroids are main belt asteroids between Mars and Jupiter and will never come dangerously close to Earth. They are all visualized here: https://eyes.nasa.gov/apps/asteroids/

Observing near earth objects (NEOs) requires shorter exposure times because their (apparent) motion is quite fast, and that has an impact on how faint the objects you can detect can be.

There are methods like synthetic tracking though, that can detect fainter objects (even those hidden in the noise, not visible by eye).

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38. 737373+bv2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-24 02:51:17
>>gmusle+h21
>didn't manage to reach the ground

Well, at least not in one piece. Pieces of the previous one over France (which happened to be detected by the same person before it entered the atmosphere), have been found: https://karmaka.de/?p=32369

39. 737373+wv2[view] [source] 2024-01-24 02:54:11
>>Brajes+(OP)
The list of successful detections BEFORE impact is indeed very short: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_impact_prediction#Lis...
replies(1): >>willma+XW3
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40. sjsdai+Qv3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-24 13:18:00
>>yencab+FP1
In a news article about it? Probably.
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41. willma+zU3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-24 15:28:35
>>zamada+1N1
You would want to design and test a vectoring nuclear thermal rocket built to absorb neutrons and reduce thrust on one side, and burn 100% on the other side, with the ability to gimbal the thrust vector depending on the asteroid's orientation. This gives you a much bigger margin of error versus "white paint" or conventional rockets imo.

You probably wouldn't want to nuke it, because you risk buck shotting the earth with a cloud of asteroids. Having a vectored nuclear rocket also allows you to change your trajectory if your initial calculations are off.

replies(1): >>willma+Icb
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42. willma+2W3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-24 15:35:49
>>lazide+qP1
>it’s already ‘eaten’ all the high risk asteroids.

>What we’re dealing with now are very much the long-long-long tail hazards.

How do you know this?

replies(1): >>lazide+zZ3
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43. willma+XW3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-24 15:39:00
>>737373+wv2
That's the most useful metric vs. undetected impacts.

It's positive that they all happened in the last 16 years and the frequency seems to be increasing. The Rubin Observatory using AI to search will drastically increase the number. That might be enough to raise public awareness sufficiently to create a defense. Asteroid detection and defense along with studying solar events should be a higher priority than our current boogie men.

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44. lazide+zZ3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-24 15:50:44
>>willma+2W3
Because we’re here at all.

And it’s a simple bit of math.

Asteroid collisions with our planet (or any other planet) destroys the asteroid.

unless something is making ‘new events’ (creating new asteroids, which we know of little/no mechanism for), we’re currently left only with asteroids which have managed to avoid impacting us or another planet for the billions of years before now they’ve been floating around the solar system.

Over x billions of years, the 1 in 1000 events have all played out. The 1 in 1000000 events have all played out, etc, etc.

So we’re just left with the lowest odds events, aka the ones with the lowest probability/lowest risk of occurring. The long-long-long tail.

It doesn’t mean we won’t get whacked by a shoemaker/levy impact in the future, just that the odds of it occurring now are very very low compared to say several billion years ago when there were far more objects floating around that hadn’t terminated their orbits into something already.

Of course, we also have a lot more incentive now to prevent such an occurrence (as we have stuff we don’t want to have destroyed now) as compared to several billion years ago when we didn’t exist.

So worth investing into. But we’re not looking for common/predictable situations, we’re looking for very unusual occurrences and hoping for enough forewarning to make it easy to deal with the consequences.

If this was a matter of dealing with high probability events, we’d have a very different approach.

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45. Gow887+QC9[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-26 09:16:05
>>echoan+IK1
A couple of nukes missile will be more than enough to fragment it and split the trajectory to less denser population. But just like Leonardo movie look up, nothing will be done as everyone will just quarrel for attention and inaction.
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46. willma+Icb[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-26 18:57:19
>>willma+zU3
The other problem is propellent. I think using the material of the asteroid itself as propellent makes the most sense.
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