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Brother have gotten to where they are now by not innovating

submitted by anothe+(OP) on 2023-11-27 07:43:06 | 930 points 735 comments
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3. thewis+e2[view] [source] 2023-11-27 08:08:04
>>anothe+(OP)
https://web.archive.org/web/20231127074421/https://retro.soc...
25. causi+x3[view] [source] 2023-11-27 08:17:22
>>anothe+(OP)
Have people forgotten that Brother, too, has become enshittified?

>>31860131

42. yair99+K4[view] [source] 2023-11-27 08:25:01
>>anothe+(OP)
Another their Linux supported thermal printers. https://github.com/pklaus/brother_ql

It did take Time to stabilize the design, anything before the ql700 is clunky. But the ones I tried after have been Great

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55. artemo+D5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 08:30:15
>>austin+e3
sorry, I am very bad at this, I basically copypasted some terminal commands from some tutorial (I think it was https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/raspberry-pi-print-serve...) and also spent a lot of time fixing some of the settings (there had to be something done about spooling service) to finally make it work for my windows PC, as mac and iphone started working immediately. But even if a complete noob like me with some lame google-fu skills could do it, I think anyone can.
68. Joel_M+57[view] [source] 2023-11-27 08:40:46
>>anothe+(OP)
Most models are reliable, compatible with *nix network drivers, and don't pull shenanigans when you need them to work.

The only issue I saw is the toner color match on laser models could be a bit better. Still highly recommended for anything except photos.

"Innovating"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

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98. jll29+nb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 09:10:55
>>layer8+Da
You don't need deep learning for that... https://www.dkriesel.com/en/blog/2013/0802_xerox-workcentres...
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132. aikina+kf[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 09:36:34
>>jbreck+mb
Your description reminded me of this Krazam sketch[0].

[0] https://youtu.be/_o7qjN3KF8U?si=OyKs8ULYBNLOmmcI

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139. hef198+zg[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 09:45:26
>>konsch+cf
Now that you link stock buybavks to growing salaries, I cannot ignore it anymore.

Stock buybacks only benefit shareholders and companies, not the economie. Trickle down and all that doesn't work, stock buybacks reduce a companies tax burden, especially when leveraged which they often are, do not lead to more investment. And they make the rich even richer.

See, for example, here:

https://hbr.org/2020/01/why-stock-buybacks-are-dangerous-for...

And salaries rise, primarily, through labour organization and collective bargaining.

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158. jowea+Ej[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 10:09:32
>>jbreck+mb
What about a state with a growth mindset? I feel it's a decent parallel to the behaviour of states as described by realism, or even to the Red Queen hypothesis where if you stop running you lose. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen_hypothesis
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216. clusmo+Or[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 11:23:05
>>aljgz+u4
> The growth mindset is incredible for expanding when your product is in its early ages. But there should be a "sustain" mindset at some point. First you push to grow the market, or your market share. When returns on your efforts become diminishing, you push to improve how much you earn of each customer/each sale. At some point there should be a mindset that our company is worth X dollars, and we should sustain that.

Kent Beck calls this the Explore and Extract phases (with the middle phase being Expand). I'm not sure if you had this talk in mind as you were writing your comment, but if not I think it'll resonate with you.

[1]: https://youtu.be/YGhS8VQpS6s

226. avidph+Fs[view] [source] 2023-11-27 11:29:16
>>anothe+(OP)
There is a similar phenomenon going on with home appliances. Since the reliability of most all appliances has declined over the last decade or so (based on talking to repair people and from what I read from self-described repair experts on r/HVAC, so grain of salt) the advice on what appliance to buy is something like: buy the appliance with the fewest features you can get away with (oh and avoid the 2-3 brands that particularly have trouble).

I think the situation with printers and appliances share a common cause, the financialization of firms that is part of “late-stage” capitalism as evidenced by the shift between C-M-C transactions to M-C-M, and now M-M’ (see https://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/daskapital/section2/).

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230. adwn+Ts[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 11:31:26
>>jbreck+mb
Your argument is proving too much [1]: Every attitude will lead to absurd results when followed to absurd lengths. It's like claiming that the advice to drink water is "quite psychotic", because drinking 50 liters of water will rupture your stomach and kill you.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proving_too_much

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242. dubcan+hu[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 11:45:42
>>paprua+Xp
https://help.brother-usa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/158082/...
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246. dubcan+xu[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 11:48:07
>>ohuf+Zt
Oh they exist

> https://www.honeywell.com/us/en/press/2020/08/honeywell-depl...

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276. ArnoVW+px[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 12:11:08
>>hef198+nd
for sure I haven't run the numbers, but I think you may be underestimating the impact of food spillage / waste. Not only is spillage huge in the US [1], but one has to take into account where the loss is.

A pepper that you buy, cook and then throw away represents a considerable investment:

  * you spent energy cooking it
  * your supermarket had to stock / refrigerate 1.x pepper to sell you 1.0, because of spillage
  * the pepper had to be transported from the land, to and fro various logistic centers (sometimes 100's of miles)
  * the farmer had to grow 2.x or even 3.x peppers to sell 1.0, because of esthetics (unfortunately) .. meaning often esticides, heating, etc
I am generally not in favour of IoT, and am not convinced that a camera will correct this issue. But make no mistake: food spillage has a huge impact.

1 : https://www.fao.org/3/bt300e/bt300e.pdf

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289. deng+Cz[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 12:27:06
>>ekianj+P2
I have an Epson and it works under Linux with their ESC/P drivers:

https://www.openprinting.org/driver/epson-escpr/

It is true that they don't officially provide support for these drivers, but they work fine for me and are even GPL-licensed so that they can be (and are) packaged with Debian. Printer was immediately recognized via Avahi and worked pretty much out of the box.

I must also say that I really like the new "EcoTank supertank" concept, it's way cheaper and ink lasts a long time. So it's not like all innovation is bad. I had a Brother before and it actually had quite a few issues (leaked ink like crazy, and very poor photo print quality) but admittedly, it lasted a long time.

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294. kstene+sA[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 12:34:19
>>jbreck+mb
> Soon enough this Bobism filters into people through the labour market and professional values

It already has: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius

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309. jacque+QB[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 12:43:39
>>maskli+Kf
That was exactly the way I worded it.

https://jacquesmattheij.com/if-growth-was-good-then-getting-...

This obsession with growth is so utterly self-centered. I still have those chairs, by the way.

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331. xtians+KE[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 13:04:27
>>jbreck+mb
Your comment reminded me of Seth Godin’s take on public education as a means for producing “obedient” “factory workers”.

https://youtu.be/C7FG6-KmMPg?si=ivTxNNdR6Ha4vOQK

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339. paulto+1G[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 13:11:56
>>paulto+xF
Actually, it may already be too late. I just searched amazon for brother printers, and it looks like they've rolled out an ink subscription.[1] This is clearly the harbinger of doom---remember when HP did theirs and immediately made their printers worthless?

[1] https://www.brother-usa.com/supplies/ez-auto-reordering/refr...

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356. cridde+9I[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 13:27:48
>>LeifCa+NG
> >>31860131

At work, we have an MFC-8950DW laser printer and it's not very good. It leaves streaks on the paper and the toner doesn't seem to fix properly all the time. I end up with printed pages that smear or the type rubs off. That printer replaced a much older Brother laser and it was better. We "upgraded" simply because drivers were not available for 64-bit Windows.

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361. pmoria+YI[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 13:33:41
>>LeifCa+NG
> Citation needed?

Brother HL-L8260CDW

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review/B06XDS1XW7/R2MQHUVV9JX7N...

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367. xd1936+4K[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 13:42:05
>>usrusr+tH
Like this slice of journalism?

https://www.theverge.com/23642073/best-printer-2023-brother-...

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379. dv35z+8L[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 13:51:15
>>markdo+OB
This is the one I’ve got - pleased with it.

Brother Compact Monochrome Laser Printer, HLL2390DW, Flatbed Copy & Scan, Wireless Printing, Duplex Two-Sided Printing, https://a.co/d/8vMWJCK

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382. clnq+wL[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 13:54:16
>>lioete+XF
An interesting read on grit that was popular on LessWrong, despite not being posted to their platform - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CyHvCwWh_BwukwNE-y61oBCj...
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404. leoken+UO[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 14:15:19
>>ansc+T2
I have a similar experience. Installed and connected my Brother printer 3 years ago, pop in new ink about once per year and that's it. It works and I do not need to worry about it.

Also look at the delicious Windows 2000 style settings interface:

https://i.imgur.com/YtnfaAN.jpg

410. jmyeet+cQ[view] [source] 2023-11-27 14:21:48
>>anothe+(OP)
Mandatory Steve Jobs quote [1].

There is a deep-seated myth that capitalism creates innovation. Capitalism builds enclosures, first quite literally [2] and now through intellectual property, rent-seeking, legislative barriers and so on to keep competitors out.

Look at the story of Tetris, invented by a few guys in the USSR for fun, basically. And what did the Western capitalists do? They simply licensed, re-licensed, sub-licensed that creation.

Printer companies maximize profit by creating enclosures. Limitations on ink, control of the drivers and so on. There's no motivation to innovate. industry is ossified.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGKsbt5wii0

[2]: https://www.joewrote.com/p/the-origin-of-capitalism-the-encl...

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416. I_Am_N+9R[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 14:27:57
>>jedrek+8K
>"how can we create businesses that we can convince other investors to see as valuable before we cash out and move on?"

"How can we steal a man's shirt while convincing him he only lost it[1] instead?"

If there's only so many shirts to go around, and they have to come from someone else, maybe we just load a bag full of rocks, lie and tell people it's full of their laundry, and then leave the laundromat before they notice. When they do notice, they will blame themselves. "Why oh why," they lament, "did I not immediately recognize it was a bag of rocks all along!"

1. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/losingyourshirt.asp

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462. joseph+A01[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 15:14:13
>>wycy+cH
They have gone down the dark path. See, e.g., >>31860131
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465. joseph+g11[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 15:17:02
>>willva+Db
Yes they are. See >>31860131
467. karmel+d21[view] [source] 2023-11-27 15:22:19
>>anothe+(OP)
Only bummer: the MFC-9320CW I have had for over a decade now is no longer officially supported by Brother on macOS.

However, VueScan [1] - something I hadn't used since my Epson scanner in the mid 1990s - saved the day! They support scanning for it, and after a quick purchase I was able to scan from it again.

This sounds like shilling for the company, but just posting here if anyone has a similar problem to me. I wanted to scan something but macOS 14 (and maybe 13 or 12?) wouldn't work with my Brother multi-function scanner... although the printing still works fine.

Otherwise I'm still very happy with this scanner - one software purchase and one set of toner cartridges in over a decade is pretty good total cost of ownership :)

1. https://www.hamrick.com

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495. jaunty+Bf1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 16:15:34
>>aljgz+u4
This idea about sustain-mode resonates with me! It almost feels like we need different kind of "product" people to do this; the typical incentives for product is to innovate innovate innovate.

This topic reminds me a lot of the recent thread on Signal being so comparatively small but being scaled so big (and shaming big tech companies for being so big). https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/signal-meta-google-too-b... >>38382811

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496. mstngl+Mf1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 16:16:13
>>snvzz+K3
I‘m asking this obvious question as well from time to time, and indeed some insights were given here: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers? >>24786721
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545. i386+l12[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 19:33:58
>>Mister+gR1
Don’t buy new carts. Have them refilled. The carts themselves are very expensive. The kit below is around $75 CAD to do it at home.

https://www.amazon.com.au/DINGLONG-Cartridge-Laserjet-M281fd...

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560. coreth+292[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 20:10:03
>>JohnMa+5W1
Your comment reminded me of this:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=segway_more_...

I'm just referring to the picture on that site of the segway.

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576. ncann+zh2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 20:51:12
>>JohnMa+5W1
Silicon Valley has a scene about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcXu4_K1tMQ

588. throwi+mo2[view] [source] 2023-11-27 21:20:43
>>anothe+(OP)
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/brother-introduces-...
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597. jrockw+Jq2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 21:30:22
>>filter+In2
The ESP32-C5 has dual band support: https://www.espressif.com/en/news/ESP32-C5

I think that 2.4GHz having longer range is a myth. When I worked on WiFi for Google Fiber we tested it pretty extensively and didn't see any common building materials that attenuated 2.4GHz more than 5GHz. Historically, the problem was that routers often selected low-power channels for 5GHz. If you use a channel where the maximum power is permitted, 5GHz is just as good.

The 5GHz band plan is kind of complicated. You will want to ensure that you get a 160MHz channel. How you accomplish that varies by region, unfortunately.

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612. gpm+Rw2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 21:59:20
>>AirMax+gV1
> Consider also that initially producing a car is a major contributor to the environmental impact of a car.

Not if you drive it very much/for very long. See this graph [1] (from this article [2]) for instance. Note that they're evenly diving 173,151 miles across the 13 "years" (and don't ask me why they decided to make the x-axis "years").

And that's with a modern fuel efficient car, not some ancient one.

[1] https://graphics.reuters.com/ELECTRIC-VEHICLES/EMISSIONS/rlg...

[2] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-d...

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614. ryanks+4y2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 22:06:36
>>Eterna+wv2
I don't know, if that's one of these ports than it does https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pOcfLm3yjtwB-uIJ_v8Un6afZmX...

oh and here's a bonus pic showing the $6 price tag from when I bought it 20 years ago https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oAFemqYAfiHp2lWLqjwYCTI4WW0...

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617. i386+4z2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 22:12:05
>>Mister+pp2
You can also send them away to be refilled! Have done this for high use lasers for years. https://inkjet411.com/?page_id=4779
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626. Walter+FC2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 22:31:11
>>winrid+Xz2
I wrote crimp and solder. Not solder.

Take a look at these:

https://www.amazon.com/Qibaok-Connectors-Insulated-Electrica...

Crimp a wire in it. Look at it from the connector side. You'll see the bare conductor inside the connector. That's where the moisture gets in. Heat shrink tubing won't shrink enough to cover that. Wicking solder into it will seal it against moisture and corrosion.

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642. exabri+rK2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-27 23:09:25
>>iterat+qG2
I too had a similar experience... My dad had to liquidate his old HiFi set as kids were growing up, but after the nest was empty I gave him the old towers back!

We built a set of these: https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/zd... which are a throwback to the old HiFi sets of the 70s-80s. I _really_ like the reference sound of this set. The only thing they don't really do is the sub-sonic punch that action movies require, but that's probably ok for apartment living with neighbors.

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662. winrid+G23[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-28 01:10:48
>>Walter+FC2
Yeah I see your issue. You're not using the right connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/JRready-Connector-Waterproof-Electric...

The cheaper knock offs can work well, too.

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670. indror+0f3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-28 02:59:14
>>vGPU+6d2
Lego has had issues for years, and has faced bankruptcy[1] through to several years ago just going "Whoops we made too many bricks..."[2]

Lego's original core competency was toys, but not plastic ones. The original Lego toys were nearly all wooden, but they gained success with the plastic bricks.

It's unfortunate how many spinoffs they've had that failed.

[1] https://business.time.com/2012/07/23/innovation-almost-bankr...

[2]https://www.bbc.com/news/business-43298897

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675. dang+Xu3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-28 05:43:23
>>vGPU+B72
Could you please stop posting swipes and personal attacks (e.g. >>38415461 )? You've been doing it repeatedly, unfortunately, and it's against the site guidelines. You can make your substantive points without any of that, so please do.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

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686. Walter+TK3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-28 08:51:06
>>pxx+cV2
The brittleness doesn't matter if the wire is supported to where the solder ends. I don't let it wick up much - I introduce the solder at the cut end, just enough to solder the joint.

I have electronic equipment in nearly continuous use for 40 years. Daily heat/cool cycling. No solder breaks in it.

It seems that this debate is an old one:

https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/what-pros-cons-soldering-v...

https://blog.peigenesis.com/soldering-vs-crimping-advantages...

https://www.sig4cai.com/soldering-or-crimping-which-is-bette...

P.S. I'm pretty good with soldering, since I've done it professionally, so the disadvantages of a poorly soldered joint don't apply.

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698. Kronis+kY3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-28 11:09:04
>>exabri+7R
> There is 0 reason a modern phone couldn’t be used for the rest of your life.

Even with replaceable batteries, there's still https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law

It would be nice if we had mobile and desktop OSes that didn't get increasingly bloated with time, slowed down, were abandoned by the vendors and were messy in plethora of other ways.

My Android phone doesn't get security updates by the manufacturer, just a few years after the release, which is horrible in the case of RCEs (like the WebP one). I can't install a newer version or a custom ROM because of a locked down bootloader (without exploits) and even then drivers are a big issue. Some of my older hardware wouldn't even be compatible with desktop OSes like Windows 11 because of the whole TPM debacle.

Other than that, digging up my old Android phone with Android 2.1 on it, or maybe my old E8400 CPU from 2008 would yield really bad experience in both cases. Could devices from over a decade ago be viable choices, if the software didn't get exponentially more wasteful? Perhaps, but that's not the reality that we live in, neither for desktop PCs, nor phones.

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700. grantc+NZ3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-28 11:26:43
>>3seash+kA3
This sibling comment (>>38439016 ) and google searches do not support your numbers - the CO2 impact of producing a car is roughly equivalent to one year's use, both are give-or-take 5 metric tons.
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714. milesv+Cp5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-28 19:30:42
>>SlickN+CD2
I've been under the impression that soldering crimped connections was a general no-no as well, since it doesn't actually help a good crimp with cold welds, and does make any stranded wire more likely to break where the solder stops.

I've studied this a little since it effects my work, but I don't claim to be an EE. Sadly, I'm not finding any definitive authorities on the subject with a quick googling, though all the top hits tend to agree with the sentiment of not soldering crimped connections.

This was a short article that I ran across, dealing with the topic. As usual, the comments on hackaday are all over the place, but I still find them useful.

https://hackaday.com/2017/02/09/good-in-a-pinch-the-physics-...

Interestingly, I thought nasa banned soldering crimped connections, but as far as I can tell, rereading this doc now with a quick skim for the string crimp, they only ban crimping tinned connections.

https://s3vi.ndc.nasa.gov/ssri-kb/static/resources/nasa-std-...

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718. tribaa+2P5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-28 21:39:35
>>3seash+kA3
The EPA seems to disagree with your numbers: https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
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