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1. slg+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-20 09:14:20
It isn't fear of a sentient AI that enslaves humanity that makes me disappointed with for-profit companies getting a stronger grip on this tech. It is the fear that a greater portion of the value of this technology will go to the stockholders of said companies rather than potentially be shared among a larger percentage of society. Not that I had that much faith in OpenAI, but in general the shift from non-profit to for-profit is a win for the few over the many.
replies(3): >>xapata+x >>two_in+H7 >>RcouF1+fm
2. xapata+x[view] [source] 2023-11-20 09:17:32
>>slg+(OP)
I'm a Microsoft shareholder. So is basically everyone else who invests in broad index funds, even if indirectly, through a pension fund. That's "many" enough for me.
replies(5): >>belter+Y1 >>ssnist+f3 >>pydry+l3 >>slg+J3 >>bergen+06
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3. belter+Y1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 09:25:25
>>xapata+x
Can I direct my fury to you, for having to pay extra for my hardware when using a PC to install Linux? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_of_Microsoft_Windows

Or being forced to use Teams and Azure, due to my company CEO getting the licenses for free out of his Excel spend? :-))

replies(2): >>xapata+R2 >>ikt+9t
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4. xapata+R2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 09:30:59
>>belter+Y1
Feel free. I can be your pseudonymous villain.
replies(1): >>belter+X5
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5. ssnist+f3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 09:32:43
>>xapata+x
Most Microsoft products have miserable UX because of this enabling mentality. Someone has to come out and say "enough is enough".

A broad index fund sans Microsoft will do just fine. That's the whole point of a broad index fund.

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6. pydry+l3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 09:33:07
>>xapata+x
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wealthiest-10percent-of-...
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7. slg+J3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 09:35:37
>>xapata+x
The top 1% own over half of all stocks and the top 10% own nearly 90% so it really isn't that "many". And you know what other companies are in those index funds you own, Microsoft's competitors and customers that would both be squeezed if Microsoft gains a monopoly on some hypothetical super valuable AI tech. If Microsoft suddenly doubled in value, you would barely notice it in your 401k.
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8. belter+X5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 09:47:41
>>xapata+R2
Much appreciated. I will conserve energy, and reserve my next outburst until a future Windows Update.
replies(1): >>HenryB+ie
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9. bergen+06[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 09:48:10
>>xapata+x
"Why don't they just buy stock"? Marie Antoinette or something
10. two_in+H7[view] [source] 2023-11-20 09:59:56
>>slg+(OP)
Even if it goes to stockholders it's not lost forever. That's how we got Starship. The question is what they do with it. As for 'sharing', we've seen that. In USSR it ended up with Putin, Lukashenko, turkmenbashi, and so on. In others it's not much better. Europe is slowly falling behind. There should be some balance and culture.
replies(3): >>slg+jb >>guappa+Tn >>gremli+Vr
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11. slg+jb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 10:23:17
>>two_in+H7
>As for 'sharing', we've seen that. In USSR...

HN isn't the place to have the political debate you seem to want to have, so I will simply say that this is really sad that you equate "sharing" with USSR style communism. There is a huge middle ground between that and the trickle-down Reaganomics for which you seem to be advocating. We should have let that type of binary thinking die with the end of the Cold War.

replies(1): >>two_in+bh
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12. HenryB+ie[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 10:47:09
>>belter+X5
> ..reserve my next outburst until a..

You'll just waste your time :)

Look, it's Microsoft's right to put any/all effort to making more money with their various practices.

It is our right to buy a Win10 Pro license for X amount of USD, then bolt down the ** out of it with the myriad of privacy tools to protect ourselves and have a "better Win7 Pro OS".

MS has always and will always try to play the game of getting more control, making more money, collecting more telemetry, do clean and dirty things until get caught. Welcome to the human condition. MS employees are humans. MS shareholders are also humans.

As for Windows Update, I don't think I've updated the core version at all since I installed it, and I am using WuMgr and WAU Manager (both portables) for very selective security updates.

It's a game. If you are a former sys-admin or a technical person, then you avoid their traps. If you are not, then the machine will chew your data, just like Google Analytics, AdMod, and so many others do.

Side-note: never update apps when they work 'alright', chances are you will regret it.

replies(2): >>cyanyd+zj >>TeMPOr+Jp
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13. two_in+bh[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 11:07:29
>>slg+jb
>> There should be some balance

is all I'm saying. And I'm not interested in political debates. Neither right nor left side is good in long run. We have examples. More over we can predict what happens if...

replies(1): >>albume+eu
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14. cyanyd+zj[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 11:23:20
>>HenryB+ie
it'd be nice if we could enforce monopoly regulations too.
replies(1): >>HenryB+Sy
15. RcouF1+fm[view] [source] 2023-11-20 11:39:32
>>slg+(OP)
> It is the fear that a greater portion of the value of this technology will go to the stockholders of said companies rather than potentially be shared among a larger percentage of society. Not that I had that much faith in OpenAI, but in general the shift from non-profit to for-profit is a win for the few over the many.

You know what is an even bigger temptation to people than money - power. And being a high priest for some “god” controlling access from the unwashed masses who might use it for “bad” is a really heady dose of power.

This safety argument was used to justify monarchy, illiteracy, religious coercion.

There is a much greater chance of AI getting locked away from normal people by a non-profit on a power trip, rather than by a corporation looking to maximize profit.

replies(2): >>bnralt+us >>slg+yh1
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16. guappa+Tn[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 11:50:05
>>two_in+H7
> That's how we got Starship

You forget massive public investment?

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17. TeMPOr+Jp[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 12:04:12
>>HenryB+ie
It's a game, of the kind where the winning move is not to play. Except we're being forced to. Human condition is in many ways fucked.
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18. gremli+Vr[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 12:20:52
>>two_in+H7
Except the USSR 'ended up' with those people because they went towards Western-style capitalism, these werent Soviet nomenklatura who stole power by abusing Soviet bureacracy, these were post-Soviet, American-style "democratic" leaders.
replies(1): >>two_in+zo1
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19. bnralt+us[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 12:24:34
>>RcouF1+fm
Right. Greenpeace also protects the world against technological threats only they can see, and in that capacity has worked to stop nuclear power and GMO use. Acting as if all concern about technology is noble is extremely misguided. There's a lot of excessive concern about technology that holds society back.

If we use the standard of the alignment folks - that the technology today doesn't even have to be the danger, but an imaginary technology that could someday be built might be the danger. And we don't even have to be able to articulate clearly how it's a danger, we can just postulate the possibility. Then all technology becomes suspect, and needs a priest class to decided what access the population can have for fear of risking doomsday.

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20. ikt+9t[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 12:29:02
>>belter+Y1
> Or being forced to use Teams and Azure, due to my company CEO getting the licenses for free out of his Excel spend? :-))

The pain is real :(

"You use Windows because it is the only OS you know. I use Windows because it is the only OS you know."

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21. albume+eu[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 12:36:27
>>two_in+bh
Not interested in political debates, but you make political statements drawn from the extremes to support your arguments. Gotcha.

"Europe is falling behind" very much depends on your metrics. I guess on HN it's technological innovation, but for most people the metric would be quality of life, happiness, liveability etc. and Europe's left-leaning approach is doing very nicely in that regard; better than the US.

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22. HenryB+Sy[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 13:03:30
>>cyanyd+zj
We do, but it takes a long time, and by the time we get to enforce the thing, the party is half-over. How many years was Microsoft playing around with IE as default browser? And they are still playing dirty games with Edge. It's not that they don't learn. It's that they will play the game until someone stops them, and then they will begin playing a different game.

Some people downvote (it's not about the points) but I merely state the reality and not my opinions.

I've made my living as a sys-admin early in my career using MS products, so thank you MS for putting food on my table. But this doesn't negate the dirty games/dark patterns/etc.

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23. slg+yh1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 16:32:38
>>RcouF1+fm
>You know what is an even bigger temptation to people than money - power.

Do you think profit minded people and organizations aren't motivated by a desire for power? Removing one path to corruption doesn't mean I think it is impossible for a non-profit to become corrupted, but it is one less thing pulling them in that direction.

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24. two_in+zo1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 17:03:42
>>gremli+Vr
> these were post-Soviet, American-style "democratic" leaders

Before that USSR collapsed under Gorbachev. Why? They simply lost with their planned economy where nobody wants to take a risk. Because (1) it's not rewarding, (2) no individual has enough resources (3) to get thing moving they will have to convince a lot of bureaucrats who don't want to take a risk. They moved forward thanks to few exceptional people. But there wasn't as many willing to take a risk as in 'rotting' capitalism. Don't know why, but leaders didn't see Chinese way. Probably they were busy with internal rats fights and didn't see what's in it for them.

My idea is that there are two extremes. On left side people can be happy like yogs. But they don't produce anything or move forward. On the right side is pure capitalism. Which is inhuman. The optimum is somewhere in between. With good life quality and fast progress. What happens when resources are shared too much and life is good? You can see it in Germany today. 80% of Ukrainian refugees don't works and don't want to.

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