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1. shrimp+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-19 01:59:10
Ilya should split off from Altman/Brockman no matter where this lands. I sense an uncrossable chasm between these guys.

Anyway I’m with Sutskever, the guy who builds models. Charismatic salesmen are a dime a dozen.

replies(5): >>yallne+x >>cedws+41 >>naveen+i2 >>silenc+x2 >>Pheoni+z2
2. yallne+x[view] [source] 2023-11-19 02:01:46
>>shrimp+(OP)
gpt-4 lead resigned with sam
3. cedws+41[view] [source] 2023-11-19 02:05:10
>>shrimp+(OP)
Charismatic salesmen get the money needed to build the models. Computer scientists are a dime a dozen, universities churn them out every year.
replies(2): >>I_am_t+h2 >>sainez+q6
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4. I_am_t+h2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:12:38
>>cedws+41
In this case, it seems that computer scientists are serious about saving humanity, while salespeople just act as if they are doing so publicly.
replies(1): >>qwytw+C8
5. naveen+i2[view] [source] 2023-11-19 02:12:41
>>shrimp+(OP)
but he wants to jail the model he builds. As Sam says, he should think more about what he actually wants to do, and then do it. Not go in 2 opposite directions at the same time.
replies(1): >>anonym+yM
6. silenc+x2[view] [source] 2023-11-19 02:14:43
>>shrimp+(OP)
I'm not so sure.

Ilya was apparently instrumental in this, and he didn't have to pursue this?

It didn't have to be a "you're with me or you're with them!"

replies(1): >>shrimp+AC
7. Pheoni+z2[view] [source] 2023-11-19 02:14:51
>>shrimp+(OP)
Over the years "tech" has been less and less about making things and more and more about making your investors money. Technical talented used to be extremely important in this industry, but it's slowly been being worn away over the years.

I still like working in this industry because you can still find interesting problems to solve if you hunt for them, but they're getting harder to find and it increasingly seems like making good technical decisions is penalized.

It's sad to see even on HN how many comments are so dismissive of technical skills and ambitions, though I guess we've had more than a generation of engineers join the field because it was the easiest way to make the most money.

For a brief moment on Friday I thought "maybe I'm too cynical! Maybe there still are places where tech actually matters."

Not surprised it looks like that hope will be inverted almost immediately. I also suspect the takeaway from this will be the final nail in the coffin for any future debates between engineering and people who are only interested in next quarters revenue numbers.

replies(1): >>bigtun+J5
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8. bigtun+J5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:32:23
>>Pheoni+z2
What else would you expect? OpenAI spun up "separate" for profit company and recruited a bunch of industry top engineers and scientists with 500k+ salaries where the vast majority of it is tied to equity grants.

Most of the employees values do not align with a non profit, even if executives like Ilya do.

By firing Altman and trying to remind the world they are a non profit that answers to no one they are also telling their employees to fuck off on all that equity they signed on for.

replies(1): >>Pheoni+Xb
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9. sainez+q6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:34:56
>>cedws+41
Equating Ilya to the average B.S. in Computer Science is like equating Sam to a used car salesman. Neither are true and both were instrumental in the success of OpenAI.
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10. qwytw+C8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:50:09
>>I_am_t+h2
> it seems that computer scientists are serious about saving humanity

How could they accomplish that without external investment? If the money tap dries up OpenAI will just be left behind.

replies(1): >>I_am_t+C9
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11. I_am_t+C9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 02:55:51
>>qwytw+C8
They have external investment!
replies(1): >>qwytw+Wa
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12. qwytw+Wa[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 03:03:30
>>I_am_t+C9
From Microsoft? My point is that companies that are serious about making money (even at some indeterminate point in the future) are much better at attracting investment than those which have publicly declared it's not their goals.

Nobody is throwing billions around without expecting anything in return.

replies(1): >>I_am_t+Mb
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13. I_am_t+Mb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 03:09:15
>>qwytw+Wa
Nobody says that investors don't expect anything. However, it's pretty clear that Sam just solely focused on delivering fast in order to keep his advantage. He said he cared about AGI safety publicly, but his style of leading the company makes it clear that he didn't care.
replies(1): >>qwytw+451
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14. Pheoni+Xb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 03:10:32
>>bigtun+J5
I mean you're describing exactly the empty technical world I've been experiencing.

So the future of AI is in the hands of leadership that's slick talking but really only there to make a quick buck, built by teams of engineers whose only motivation is getting highly paid.

I don't begrudge those that are only in it for the money, but that's not the view of tech that got me excited and into this industry many years ago.

The point of my comment is that for a moment I thought maybe I was wrong about my view of tech today, but it's very clear that I'm not. It sounds like the reality is going to end up that the handful of truly technical people in the company will be pushed out, and the vast majority of people even on HN will cheer this.

replies(1): >>shrimp+Vk
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15. shrimp+Vk[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 04:14:26
>>Pheoni+Xb
If Sam Altman wins and the likes of Ilya lose then we won’t actually have AI. Since Sam Altman doesn’t know anything about building AI. We’ll have more sharky products with grandiose visions that end up making money by using surveillance.

But I’m hopeful that AI will at least win by open source. Like Linux did. “Linux” wasn’t a 100 billion startup with a glitzy CEO, but it ate the world anyway.

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16. shrimp+AC[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 07:00:19
>>silenc+x2
You're right, the handling of it was brutal.
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17. anonym+yM[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 08:45:07
>>naveen+i2
Not everyone is a goal-oriented monomaniac.
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18. qwytw+451[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-19 11:43:12
>>I_am_t+Mb
> However, it's pretty clear that Sam just solely focused on delivering fast in order to keep his advantage

Yes, I'd assume most investors prefer this type of approach to a more cautious one. Meaning that companies like this are more likely to attract investors and more likely to beat the ones which care about AGI safety to actually building an AGI (whatever is that supposed to mean).

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