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1. rsrsrs+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-17 22:09:25
The tone used by OpenAI (their distrust of Sam Altman) tells me that they did not simply decide they need different leadership. The statement by the board seriously damages his career. Why else would they burn bridges and oppose themselves on ethical grounds? Or they are trying to blame and sac Altman.
replies(2): >>tomcam+82 >>w10-1+Y8
2. tomcam+82[view] [source] 2023-11-17 22:22:02
>>rsrsrs+(OP)
> The statement by the board seriously damages his career.

You misunderstand how these corporate situations work. He will fall upward to a better job someplace else if he chooses.

Adam Neumann, who started then destroyed WeWork, already raised $350 million from Andreessen Horowitz for another real estate company called Flow.

replies(8): >>Sebb76+Q3 >>Vegeno+24 >>redeux+54 >>gloryj+Q4 >>slibhb+f5 >>sharkw+J6 >>sharkj+Bj >>banana+On
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3. Sebb76+Q3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:29:31
>>tomcam+82
> Adam Neumann, who started then destroyed WeWork, already raised $350 million from Andreessen Horowitz for another real estate company called Flow.

Well, he did get a few billion dollars of lesson on how to not run such a company, making him quite uniquely qualified for this position.

replies(3): >>miohta+07 >>PopePo+i7 >>notfro+B8
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4. Vegeno+24[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:30:32
>>tomcam+82
> upward to a better job

Not a whole lot of up to go from CEO of OpenAI right now...

replies(1): >>sumthi+ap
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5. redeux+54[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:30:42
>>tomcam+82
A better job than CEO of a company that has a chance to be the dominant company of our generation? I doubt that.
replies(1): >>notaha+5a
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6. gloryj+Q4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:33:25
>>tomcam+82
With a16z's crypto ventures, scams on top scams is not surprising
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7. slibhb+f5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:35:19
>>tomcam+82
Are you seriously comparing OpenAI to WeWork? I'm not particularly bullish on AI but you have to give OpenAI credit for what they've accomplished under Altman.
replies(1): >>usea+H6
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8. usea+H6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:41:31
>>slibhb+f5
Comparing two things is not the same as saying they're the same in all respects.
replies(1): >>slibhb+z7
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9. sharkw+J6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:41:38
>>tomcam+82
There’s a famous NFL quote from a former general manager of the Arizona Cardinals that goes, “If Hannibal Lecter ran a 4.3 (40-yard dash) we'd probably diagnose it as an eating disorder.”

I'll argue in this day and age, that any founder/C-level person who has "created" billions in value, no matter how much of a paper tiger it is, will almost always get another shot. If SBF or Elizabeth Holmes weren't physically in prison, I bet they'd be able to get investment for whatever their next idea is.

replies(2): >>lotsof+e7 >>SahAss+Be
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10. miohta+07[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:42:56
>>Sebb76+Q3
Adam also managed to get almost half a billy worth of money out from Softbank as a corporate loan for himself

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/softbank-takes-14b-hit-wework...

Adam is good making people rich, but those people are not his investors.

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11. lotsof+e7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:43:46
>>sharkw+J6
This comparison makes no sense. Hannibal Lecter would be helping the team by being able to run fast.

Neumann and Holmes and SBF lost their benefactors money.

replies(1): >>tshadd+98
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12. PopePo+i7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:44:15
>>Sebb76+Q3
I assume he has trademarked the word "Flow" and is licensing it to the company for a few million dollars.
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13. slibhb+z7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:45:33
>>usea+H6
He said they both involved failing upwards...

OpenAI is not a failure.

replies(1): >>usea+u8
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14. tshadd+98[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:48:06
>>lotsof+e7
The point of comparison in the analogy is "founder/C-level person who has "created" billions in value, no matter how much of a paper tiger it is."

The claim is that investors are interested in executives who they perceive to have created billions in value, and that's analogous to how NFL teams are interested in people who run fast.

replies(1): >>lotsof+u9
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15. usea+u8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:49:28
>>slibhb+z7
Nobody said that.
replies(1): >>slibhb+qd
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16. notfro+B8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:50:00
>>Sebb76+Q3
I like how CEO performance has no null hypothesis
17. w10-1+Y8[view] [source] 2023-11-17 22:51:50
>>rsrsrs+(OP)
> The statement by the board seriously damages his career

Yes: suggesting he was not as candid as necessary is business libel unless true.

And since Brockman was also booted, he may have been involved.

It's not clear what the Board was trying to do that he interfered with. There is no clear legal standard on what a CEO must divulge, and CEO's often get to wait to tell board members bad news until the whole board meets and the issue has been investigated.

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18. lotsof+u9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:53:58
>>tshadd+98
Investors are not interested in executives that “create” billions, they are interested in investors that create billions.

NFL teams are interested in players that can actually run fast, not players that can say they do, but are found to be lying and it turns out they cannot run fast causing the team to lose.

replies(1): >>Paul-C+vc
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19. notaha+5a[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 22:57:02
>>redeux+54
His next CEO gig might come with equity...
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20. Paul-C+vc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 23:10:10
>>lotsof+u9
> Investors are not interested in executives that “create” billions, they are interested in investors that create billions.

Investors are interested in people they can use to make money. The latter are easier to use, but the former will suffice. It just depends on when you sell.

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21. slibhb+qd[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 23:14:01
>>usea+u8
> He will fall upward to a better job someplace else if he chooses.

I take "fall upward" to be a typo of "fail upward".

The next sentence explicitly compares the situation to WeWork.

My interpretation is correct, it's a bizarre post, I'm done with this thread, have a good day.

replies(1): >>squeak+5f
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22. SahAss+Be[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 23:20:37
>>sharkw+J6
Would you say the same thing for Enron execs? For Bernie Madoff?

I think the business of running a scam or a fraudulent company is quite different to an actual business.

replies(2): >>sharkw+jh >>hilux+Mi
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23. squeak+5f[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 23:23:38
>>slibhb+qd
The first word there, "he" will fall upward.

Not OpenAI will fall upward. Sam Altman is not OpenAI, especially after this latest announcement.

The next sentence compares him to the WeWork CEO.

It's not OpenAI is like WeWork. It's the disgraced CEO of OpenAI is like the disgraced CEO of WeWork.

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24. sharkw+jh[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 23:33:08
>>SahAss+Be
20 years ago? No for either.

Now? Yes for Kenneth Lay (assuming he was still alive and/or not hiding on a desert island under a new identity if I put on my tin foil hat)... Madoff, probably not.

replies(2): >>SahAss+Rl >>manque+To1
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25. hilux+Mi[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 23:39:30
>>SahAss+Be
Look at the comment two levels above about Adam Neumann.
replies(1): >>SahAss+uk
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26. sharkj+Bj[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 23:43:18
>>tomcam+82
Fall upwards to a better job than CEO of OpenAI circa 2023? What job is that?
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27. SahAss+uk[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 23:47:55
>>hilux+Mi
Adam Neumann is not a good example. While he has proven good at raising money he has not been proven at running a business or even finding successful ones. My comment was exactly about that difference.
replies(1): >>hilux+4n
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28. SahAss+Rl[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 23:55:11
>>sharkw+jh
Why a yes for Kenneth Lay? Do you think the experience of running a scam is transferable to a real business? Or do you not consider enron a scam? Or do you think the line between scams and businesses is so blurred that the skill doing them is the same?
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29. hilux+4n[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 00:01:56
>>SahAss+uk
I completely agree with your assessment of Adam Neumann.

AND ... post the WeWork debacle, Neumann has once again succeeded in raising a massive investment.

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30. banana+On[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 00:05:41
>>tomcam+82
> You misunderstand how these corporate situations work. He will fall upward to a better job someplace else if he chooses.

I have no doubt that Altman is deeply embedded in the techbro good old boys network to get another job, but that doesn't change the fact his (now previous) employer released a blog post saying he LIED TO THE BOARD about something severe enough that they had to insta-sack him.

replies(1): >>rsrsrs+HE
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31. sumthi+ap[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 00:12:07
>>Vegeno+24
except founding a new startup with a bunch of top level players who recently left top level companies.
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32. rsrsrs+HE[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 01:30:27
>>banana+On
Lied to the board and they _rushed_ to oust him.

No clear transition plan. In what situations world a board fire the ceo from the worlds greatest tech sensation since who knows when, in a matter of hours ?

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33. manque+To1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 07:31:09
>>sharkw+jh
I would say yes for madoff . Lots of people made a ton of money of him for decades , and losses were not as bad as originally thought.

There is bound to be a few people who have a soft spot and will give him money again .

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