zlacker

I didn't call him a liar, I told him that he should lie about what he does. Sometimes you need a little lie about how long will it take and ship good code a little later than bad code on time.

> Have you considered that perhaps your personal perspective is not exactly representative of large swathes of the industry

Yes. HN is place for ALL kinds of people, sometimes they are not even programmers. Many tips are not applicable to everyone here.

>>yetihe+(OP)
Oh, my bad. Thanks for the clarification.

In that case, I would heavily disagree with your suggestion. Your "chill" PM is likely actively running interference on your behalf in order to allow you to spend time on such endeavors. It's a great thing when you can have such a partner, but most PMs (in my experience) are not willing to put themselves on the line like that.

>>Chabsf+n1
Staying in a place where everything is stacked against your excellency will mean you will not gain excellency. Whether just bringing some money home is enough for you is only up to you, but then don't complain that you can't do anything nice, it's just whining at that point. Saying all that I don't condemn people for working in boring shitty places. At least typically they try their best anyway and make world a better place bit by bit.

>>Chabsf+n1
I've seen these people called "shit umbrellas". If your life as a developer is relatively chill and drama-free, in all likelihood you have a hero PM, PjM and/or EngM using themselves as the shit umbrella to shield you from all the madness being spewed from up above. Those are the best teams to work on.

>>ryandr+w9
I just replied to /u/yetihehe. That is a perfect description of the PM we had on the project I was talking about. She was amazing!