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I have noticed the announcement of the change too. This materially changes the product for me. I was a happy user so far, and was thinking about buying more bulbs in fact, but not anymore.

Is there a way to force the company to return the money I have paid for my bulbs and hub so far? Even if it is arduous and cost me more money than I'm able to gain back I would be inclined to do it to signal my displeasure with this change.

>>krisof+(OP)
Sue in small claims court?

>>dharma+e
Possible. But I guess I should maybe wait for the change to actually happen, then send the equipment back to them and ask for a refund, and only sue them if they are not refunding me?

>>krisof+(OP)
Fortunately all of their lights work over a standard Zigbee connection. No need for a Hue Hub or App at all. I was already transitioning my lights from using the Hue Hub/App to directly connecting via Zigbee/HomeAssistant before this was announced.

>>grumbl+NI1
That is good to know! Thank you very much. I will look in that direction then.

>>grumbl+NI1
you still need a hub for zigbee connectivity right?

>>noamch+9P1
You need a ZigBee hub, but it doesn't have to be a Hue one.

>>noamch+9P1
yes, I use home assistant cause I don't need any cloud based stuff for it to work, though I did have to buy a raspi and a zigbee stick to run it on (or if you have some extra hardware laying about, I just like having it separated from my other stuff). I have a few cloud based things attached to it, but I'm selective and don't buy things where essential functionality requires it, but it's a extra & optional feature on something I was going to buy anyways (and that I don't care if data is shared on, like my automatic litter box dump box being full).

>>grumbl+NI1
All except their new wifi connected ones... called Wiz.. watch out for those, much more affordable but really crappy app/setup situation.

>>noamch+9P1
You need a coordinator talking to the zigbee bulbs, in most cases this is a usb-dongle for $20-50. Zigbee2mqtt has a great list of different dongles and their pros/cons. The other functionality of a propriatary hub will be fulfilled by home assistant or Zigbee2mqtt+nodered.

>>grumbl+NI1
can you still set up direct connection between a switch and a light which would work even if the hub is down?

>>anabab+MV1
All zigbee devices require a coordinator. It can be a raspberry pi or any other hardware/software with the radio, but it does have to be powered up.

>>Sparky+y12
So how do the Hue light switches work?

>>psyclo+rU1
Wiz bulbs use ESP-NOW (so that the Wiz remote can communicate with them). They also have an ESP-WROOM-02 inside (a package integrating an ESP-8266EX).

The fact that they use ESP-NOW means they can be controlled (theoretically) by any ESP* that has ESP-NOW support. So far, folks have only managed to go the other way—to intercept remote key presses [0]—but I imagine it won’t be long before they suss out control of the bulbs.

[0]: https://github.com/jesserockz/wizmote-esphome

>>Sparky+y12
Not all, IKEA Trådfri works fully hub-less by default.

>>sp332+q62
Hue light switches (well, the ones I have) simply stick on the wall with no wiring.

The _real_ light switch is permanently on, and the _hue_ light switch sends a beacon to the hub to turn the configured lights on/off (the light bulb socket is always-on)

>>cj+0b2
No, some switchers and dimmers can also control lights without a hub present. Some products come as a paired bulb and switch, with only an optional suggestion that you later extend into the ecosystem.

>>psyclo+rU1
Also the wiz bulbs have one feature that most others don't have: they get their last state back after a power outage. If there's one thing you don't want, it's a full bright room after a brownout in the middle of the night!

>>anabab+MV1
Yes! This is called binding in zigbee parlance. I have a couple of ikea bulbs and switches and, if memory serves me, you can bind up to 10 bulbs to a single switch.

>>antx+jj2
All Hue lights have this option. You can select different power-on behaviours. "Power loss recovery" is the setting you are describing. It stays off if it was off, and turns back on if it was on.

The default is "Warm white, full brightness", probably mostly to avoid confused people sending back bulbs because they flipped the switch ON and the bulb remained dark. Since traditionally that meant a failed bulb.

>>noamch+9P1
Yes but there are USB Zigbee dangles that will serve this need. You don't need another box and power supply, there are multiple brands to choose from, and no cloud account or goddamn SMS confirmation needed.

>>psyclo+rU1
Those WiZ bulbs have actually been pretty reliable for me in the few years I’ve had them. Pretty early on I set them up to be controlled by Home Assistant [1], and they are on par with my other Hue devices in terms of performance (maybe not a 100% match in brightness, but close enough). Definitely worth their much cheaper price to me.

[1] https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/wiz/

>>Tijdre+Ja2
TIL I can bind my remotes to my Hue bulbs, and they work without the coordinator.

>>Sparky+y12
This is not true. Look into Zigbee binding, it works when the coordinator is offline.

I'm using that as a backup solution in my house. All lights are zigbee, permanently powered, normally most are controlled automatically by presence sensors. But I have a couple of Zigbee remotes in a box that are bound directly to the lights to use in case my home automation system is down.

>>t0mas8+gW5
I'd modify my comment if I could. Bound some remotes to some hue bulbs, proving myself wrong.

>>krisof+(OP)
I'm going to RMA my lightbulb if it stops working because I haven't logged in.