Yeah. Spent more time there than not.
> And whatever amount of money you need to make is determined by the women you are trying to attract.
You deliver this like it dwarfs all other factors considered by superior women. I grew up around those women and I know that that isn't remotely true.
> If you're already in a relationship and have responsibilities (ie: kids) that's different. You obviously can't abdicate preexisting responsibilities and I'm not suggesting that anyone do such a thing.
You've just advocated working one's way out of poverty while in a relationship.
> why are you waiting for a high paying job?
I never said waiting. That came from you.
> you should be focusing on developing a high earning skill.
Yes and I addressed that. You next toss out a number of niche jobs that only a small segment of the public is well adapted to. You offered up statistical anomaly as if window washing was a path anyone could take to a high salary.
You also fairly well hurdle-over the issue where the number of high paying jobs is a fraction of the working age population. Based on your assertion and it's underlying tone, if people are [NEGATIVE ADJECTIVE] enough to lose the employment lottery, they deserve being deprived of the supportive intimate relationships that successful people depend on to be successful.
> If you are living in america, you're already setup with advantages that can put you ahead if you take advantage of them.
We'll take this point on and assume we're discussing white, binary males without crippling health issues, the group it is mostly likely to be true for. For every community of men, who each work consistently hard and well, some eventually land in fortunate positions and some will not. This is reality in America.
For all other groups, the percentage who navigate America well and eventually land in fortunate positions will be less.
I believe I have one example of that dynamic, clever, opportunity seizing ideal you seem to have in your head, me. I talked and taught myself into a lifetime of technical jobs, mostly self employed. I spent a life pulling off the unlikely. I eventually wound up running IT for a region of car dealerships - until the 2008 crash. I pivoted and worked my way into medical support and the ACA put my indy medical clients out of business. I pivoted to corp medical, picked up some big clients and my wife became psychotic - and that led to a decade of my family living in frequent hunger.
A quick note that hiding poverty is mandatory while trying to mine life for opportunities (poverty spooks people). That effort consumes significant energy and resources, which are scarce.
One thing about survivor bias. It fairly well divides people who think they understand broad realities of life from those who do. Once I landed squarely on this side of it, I learned the millions who don't make it have stories a lot like mine.
The American Dream® mentality assumes that life will eventually run out of the worst circumstances, the ones that take down the most tenacious opportunists. For some that's true. For the rest, they learn that life can very well keep it up for 3 or 4 decades. Meaningful social safety nets can mitigate that and allow folks to escape feedback loops a lot sooner. But get that boost, folks have to live in states where those safety nets exist. I don't.
I did finally work my way out of extreme poverty (wife left to become homeless & vulnerable, which allowed the rest of us to make progress). By mid 2021 we had months of living expenses saved up. Yet, like other folks with money in the bank, we nearly became homeless because there was suddenly 1 rental available for each, I don't know - maybe 400 (maybe 1000) applicants. We did manage to beat astronomical odds again and am housed.
It was just in time to come up against ageism. For those of us here, some will succeed and my efforts will be as diligent as theirs. Even so, we all know we're competing for the same shrinking pool of opportunities - and connections aren't as powerful as they used to be.
> So I stopped drinking with my coworkers and started spending my money on books instead.
Sober at 22 and only spent on strict necessities for the next 30 years.
> but you have to live in the world as it is.
Yes. Knowing the world as it really is seems important too.
I didn't say that was the sole consideration but it would be wildly disingenuous to say its not a factor in the big picture. the only guys I've run into that managed to have relationships before achieving financial success were young white guys.
> You've just advocated working one's way out of poverty while in a relationship.
do you have an alternative suggestion? seriously. its a damned if you do/don't situation and I won't claim to qualified to answer that. I know guys who have moved up in the world from humble origins while having a family and they have all told me it would have been infinitely easier doing it on their own.
> You next toss out a number of niche jobs that only a small segment of the public is well adapted to. You offered up statistical anomaly as if window washing was a path anyone could take to a high salary.
what do you expect me to say? everyone should learn to code? I can't rattle off every possible option out there. my point is that if you're using your brain, you can find a way to carve out a niche that pays well. what that niche happens to be is going to vary according to the individual and beyond the scope of a HN post. Its less about being hand and more of a point that you have agency in whether you live in poverty or success.
> assume we're discussing white, binary males without crippling health issues,
fair point about the crippling health issue. but I am not white. I'm south asian an ethnic group confirmed by OK cupid in their own high level research to be the least likely group to get replies back from women on dating sites. If anything, I'm playing the dating game on hard mode. I'll even go so far as to say I don't personally know ANY south asian men in relationships with american girls who make less than 6 figures. Being a south asian guy making less than 100k is like being a white guy under 5'5".
> Based on your assertion and it's underlying tone, if people are [NEGATIVE ADJECTIVE] enough to lose the employment lottery, they deserve being deprived of the supportive intimate relationships that successful people depend on to be successful.
no one OWES you relationship. A relationship has its perks but its also a responsibility. Shit happens in life and we can't control that but you can take steps to secure the best position you can in life before you get into a relationship because you want whats best for you both.
> I did finally work my way out of extreme poverty (wife left to become homeless & vulnerable, which allowed the rest of us to make progress).
hope she and you are doing better.
You replied: > I didn't say that was the sole consideration
Can you see how your reply doesn't rebut what I actually said?
Not at all. The only women who prioritize a high income above more important considerations are those that happen to do that - and none other. Among the most capable and brilliant women I've known, that sort of computation isn't something I've seen with any regularity.
Sure. Don't use an arbitrary, unproven rule as an excuse to turn down the opportunity of forming a mutually uplifting relationship - should such an opportunity present itself.
Instead of a paragraph of different coding paths, offer a half dozen paths to high income that well reflect the scope of the population's capabilities (inc the half of the population with below average intellect for example).
If there is an astounding abundance of likely paths available - and they are realistic for folks working the hours it takes to survive in a 4 income economy - coming up with a handful of highly likely examples should be trivial.
That reality genuinely sucks. People suck.
That said, my qualification was just to establish the lowest difficulty level. I wanted to give your American Dream® scenario it's strongest possible showing - before exposing it to reality. It wasn't a comment on anything else.