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1. ho_sch+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-06-27 14:40:10
Dear European-Union!

How about enforcing direct control about Microsoft business? Not just another “low” fine in the ten to twenty billion range. Just stopping Microsoft, Apple, Google, Facebook and Amazon.

Enforcing AT&T to not enter any new business worked well. In consequence we got UNIX, C, open-source and documentation and finally the TCP/IP-stack of BSD, GNU and Linux. This had a positive effect for the complete computing industry and society. Reagan relaxed all rules, allowed AT&T to split up - the results were bad. No IT company had to fear any regulation afterwards, either politics didn’t want regulate or didn’t understand computing at all.

We don’t need this companies with too much power using incompatibility, vendor lock-in and storing away our data (the newest approach).

Chances for regulation Europe seem a little better? Less lobbyists and less tax money involved and people don’t believe in capitalism. Too late (10xtimes) and too little but at least they react.

replies(4): >>aerzen+ke >>hinkle+ey >>kernal+mn1 >>kotaKa+qX1
2. aerzen+ke[view] [source] 2023-06-27 15:38:18
>>ho_sch+(OP)
Hmmm, interesting. How would this be implemented in practice? EU passing laws about specific things that Microsoft should and shouldn't do?
replies(3): >>hutzli+jq >>marcos+ou >>CSMast+W61
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3. hutzli+jq[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 16:32:06
>>aerzen+ke
EU can only implement laws regarding companies doing buisness in europe.

EU cannot tell Microsoft in general what to do.

replies(1): >>marcos+Uu
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4. marcos+ou[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 16:47:08
>>aerzen+ke
It's something done completely inside the Judiciary, with only oversight by the Legislative.

Indeed, the AT&T case at the US is the textbook example, it's worth looking at it.

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5. marcos+Uu[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 16:48:38
>>hutzli+jq
It can tell what Microsoft does in Europe. But, of course, MS can always decide to abandon the region instead of complying too.
replies(1): >>hutzli+wF
6. hinkle+ey[view] [source] 2023-06-27 16:59:02
>>ho_sch+(OP)
I’d be good with exponentially increasing fines that don’t reset after each repeat occurrence. Sort of a contempt of court sentiment.

Microsoft already lost this case twenty years ago? Repeat offenders do not get the mercy of the courts.

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7. hutzli+wF[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 17:31:55
>>marcos+Uu
That "region" is a very big market. So that is not really an option for them. On the other hand large parts of the economy and government in the EU are totally dependant on Microsoft products and would be screwed if they would pull the plug.
replies(3): >>marcos+zI >>yomlic+LX >>mardif+AS1
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8. marcos+zI[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 17:48:32
>>hutzli+wF
IMO, abandoning the EU would be fatal to MS, not exactly because of lost revenue but because of second order effects. But I didn't want to put my opinion on the GP post.
replies(2): >>hutzli+0N >>ho_sch+kb1
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9. hutzli+0N[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 18:09:39
>>marcos+zI
"but because of second order effects. "

Which is why Bill Gates personally intervened, when Munich switched to Linux a couple of years ago.

replies(1): >>ho_sch+kc1
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10. yomlic+LX[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 19:00:53
>>hutzli+wF
They wouldn't abandon the market, they'd just introduce a complying version for Europe like N or K versions in the past. That way they can continue to screw everyone else.
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11. CSMast+W61[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 19:52:38
>>aerzen+ke
Just eliminate vertical integration in the space.

Enforce the kernel team must be separate from the application layer - let other people build operating system UIs on top of the kernel.

For the operating system team to be separated from the product teams.

Even go further and unbundle the product teams - make office separate from bing which is separate from edge, etc.

Just make sure you also do it to Apple, Google, etc.

This is what the US almost did in the 90s.

replies(2): >>ho_sch+We1 >>hnfong+5v3
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12. ho_sch+kb1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 20:14:38
>>marcos+zI
Yep. Default Win for Red Hat, Suse and Canonical!

And after some (hard) years of actual competition benefits of compatibility will lead to lower prices and more choices.

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13. ho_sch+kc1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 20:21:46
>>hutzli+0N
Munich itself is weird case. There some smaller municipalities which have done better with Linux, lower-saxony and the police and the recent switch to Matrix of the Army.

Regarding Munich: Three competing IT-Departments! Repeat, three. An own special distribution. They didn’t migrated all applications (either do it or not) and a lot of stuff was always done on Windows. Finally Microsoft moved a headquarter to Munich and solved it with “tax money”.

Rumors say that the reverse migration to Microsoft itself was also “bumpy”. Let me guess, three IT-Departments?

The former major of Munich also gave an interesting interview about the “experience”.

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14. ho_sch+We1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-27 20:36:22
>>CSMast+W61
You probably could do that for some parts but have to control the interaction. For big integrated parts is is probably easier to control them as howl?

A mere split up will lead to “baby bells” and the bigger one will just buy others - and centralize again.

PS: We should remember that Microsoft was able to destroy Nokia with an installed CEO (Stephen Elop) of their own. Killed the already shipping Linux smartphone. Installed Windows Mobile and Nokia was finally dead. Nokia itself did mistakes before but from outside this was questionable?

15. kernal+mn1[view] [source] 2023-06-27 21:20:02
>>ho_sch+(OP)
I have an even better solution. Just get Chromium to change their license to make it a requirement to always respect the user's chosen browser.
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16. mardif+AS1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-28 00:39:05
>>hutzli+wF
It is the only option if faced with a corporate break up. Rather leaving an already shrinking market than literally cease existing.
17. kotaKa+qX1[view] [source] 2023-06-28 01:18:06
>>ho_sch+(OP)
No. The EU's too busy complaining that a company should be forced to adopt a connector that didn't exist when it released its product to the market.
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18. hnfong+5v3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-28 14:26:58
>>CSMast+W61
While what you're proposing is probably in the spirit of antitrust laws, the actual effect would be the US perceiving this to be an "economic act of war" not unlike the economic sanctions they have been dealing out lately...
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